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Message
re: Alvin Gentry is interviewing for a second time
Posted on 5/30/15 at 3:47 pm to tigerworkpart2
Posted on 5/30/15 at 3:47 pm to tigerworkpart2
There's going to be positives & negatives no matter who the hire is whether it's Thibs, JVG or Gentry. That's why there's just as much as importance with the assistant coaches being brought on board as well as the head coaching hire.
You are too busy placing the emphasis on win/loss records while totally ignoring what each candidate brings to the table from a basketball philosophical standpoint. All three of the most talked about have their flaws.
Gentry has had some really good offensive teams but hasn't consistently produced winning teams. Both Thibs & JVG have had strong defensive minded times along with playoff success. Yet, both have coached teams that you can consider didn't reach their full potential. Both have coached teams that have had their struggles in the playoffs, offensively. Thibs can be bullheaded.
JVG has been out of coaching for several years. In his last stop in Houston, he couldn't get out of the 1st round with the likes of Yao Ming & Tracy McGrady. You also have to wonder how good a JVG coached team will be defensively without Thibs being his right hand man. Neither one of these candidates are slam dunk hires no matter what anyone says if we are looking at it from a winning a NBA Title perspective.
You are too busy placing the emphasis on win/loss records while totally ignoring what each candidate brings to the table from a basketball philosophical standpoint. All three of the most talked about have their flaws.
Gentry has had some really good offensive teams but hasn't consistently produced winning teams. Both Thibs & JVG have had strong defensive minded times along with playoff success. Yet, both have coached teams that you can consider didn't reach their full potential. Both have coached teams that have had their struggles in the playoffs, offensively. Thibs can be bullheaded.
JVG has been out of coaching for several years. In his last stop in Houston, he couldn't get out of the 1st round with the likes of Yao Ming & Tracy McGrady. You also have to wonder how good a JVG coached team will be defensively without Thibs being his right hand man. Neither one of these candidates are slam dunk hires no matter what anyone says if we are looking at it from a winning a NBA Title perspective.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 4:09 pm
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Posted on 5/30/15 at 3:50 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Where you disappointed when the Saints hired Sean Payton? Would you consider his tenure a disappointment?
Not really the same situation. The Saints were a disaster of a team recovering from a disaster. There was serious doubt whether the team would even stay in New Orleans. Loomis had to go the asst. coach route because he didn't have talent, had a losing team and no prospects of luring a top coach with HC experience.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 3:52 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Good question. It could be neither though. He could there just to observe & get pointers. No matter what the sport, coaches learn from each other & share information all the time.
Before coming the Warriors coach, Steve Kerr had amassed tons of plays & coaching philosophies over his career. He kept detailed documentation on everything he gathered over the years to use when his first coaching opportunity came around.
True, and he could actually be there to advise Kerr, but the timing of it is fishy.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 4:11 pm to adono
quote:
Not really the same situation.
Yet the point & question still stands, where you disappointed in the Saints hiring a head coach without any head coaching experience?
quote:
Loomis had to go the asst. coach route because he didn't have talent, had a losing team and no prospects of luring a top coach with HC experience.
If Loomis blows the hire though, I'm not sure the organization doesn't spiral into oblivion. The Sean Payton hire was a lot more bigger than you are leading on & there was also a ton of pressure of Loomis to find the right guy. If you look at both situations objectively, there are correlations concerning both hires.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 5/30/15 at 4:13 pm to HickfawJim1
quote:
True, and he could actually be there to advise Kerr, but the timing of it is fishy.
I totally agree. It seems to be a known, unknown to keep an eye on.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 4:18 pm to BigBrod81
I'll answer after you answer this:
If you an ugly woman were the last people on earth, would you be disappointed that she was ugly?
It's unrealistic to be disappointed when there are no better options.
ETA...Sean Payton wasn't just some asst. coach...he was the head coach in waiting at Dallas. He had options. There are a few of those in the NBA right now (Messina and Atkinson are two that fit that bill) and I would be happy to have either one over Gentry.
If you an ugly woman were the last people on earth, would you be disappointed that she was ugly?
It's unrealistic to be disappointed when there are no better options.
ETA...Sean Payton wasn't just some asst. coach...he was the head coach in waiting at Dallas. He had options. There are a few of those in the NBA right now (Messina and Atkinson are two that fit that bill) and I would be happy to have either one over Gentry.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 5/30/15 at 4:22 pm to adono
quote:
If you an ugly woman were the last people on earth, would you be disappointed that she was ugly?
It's unrealistic to be disappointed when there are no better options.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 4:51 pm to tigerworkpart2
quote:. I've seen you around here you seem pretty knowledgeable, but the team we had at the beginning of the year was not getting us into the playoffs. Monty didn't change that. And I'm pretty sure the years of playoff experience we gained with those in season acquisitions, sure didn't hurt. Monty didn't change that.
Monty got us in the playoffs with his coaching ability.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 7:29 pm to adono
quote:That's the most likely scenario. Things needs to get worse before they get better. It's a foregone conclusion that a thorough house really needs to be done. Poor New Orleans now has to sit and wait through a few more seasons of losing basketball. Not interested in hearing any Pelican Sunshine Pumping BS either. This is a bad hire made by a bad GM that doesn't have a clue on how to produce a Winning/Championship program!.....
I don't think that's really in play. It's more that Demps knows he'll retain control with gentry on board...even if that only last 1 or 2 seasons before they're both shown the door.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 7:30 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Well that's just not true. It was the Rockets' defense that kept them relevant. They really weren't that great of an offensive team this year. I think their offensive rating was 12th.
And the Spurs have a top 3 defense.
The Pelicans were in the top 10 in offense this year, but were 22nd in defense. That's where they need to improve.
Yall are looking at it in a vacuum though. Houston had defensive pieces to be a great defensive team. The more impressive feat was getting a team that really lacked playmakers to be above average on offense.
Ditto for SAS. Duncan , Green , Leonard , Pop.
We do need to improve on defense from bottom 10 obviously. They say defense leads to offense. The reverse is equally true in today's game. The Pelicans played a grind it out style of basketball that suited practically no one on our roster.
Crow all you want, but the GSW are the gold standard in the West atm with LAC, HOU, OKC, and SAS not ridiculously far behind. The Pelicans would need a complete overhaul to turn in to Memphis or Chicago and become the team that's going to grind you down.
At the end of the day, there are times you are just going to have to outscore those teams in the playoffs with our roster. Take advantage of the off nights when the D is clicking and the shots aren't falling. That's how I see us winning in the playoffs.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 10:26 pm to semjase
quote:
Poor New Orleans now has to sit and wait through a few more seasons of losing basketball
Want to exchange e-mails, set up a PayPal account and make a bet? I will.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:50 pm to oilmanNO
quote:
Calm your tits. They are just doing their due diligence. He won't be hired
welp
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:53 pm to semjase
quote:
That's the most likely scenario. Things needs to get worse before they get better. It's a foregone conclusion that a thorough house really needs to be done. Poor New Orleans now has to sit and wait through a few more seasons of losing basketball. Not interested in hearing any Pelican Sunshine Pumping BS either. This is a bad hire made by a bad GM that doesn't have a clue on how to produce a Winning/Championship program!.....
Go back to trolling the rant
And where were you fricks when this team was good this year? Nothing but woodworkers,the wall needs to be patched up.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 7:51 am to adono
quote:
ETA...Sean Payton wasn't just some asst. coach...he was the head coach in waiting at Dallas. He had options.
Sean Payton only had interviews with the Raiders and Saints. He didn't really have lots of options and he didn't have a head coach in waiting tag.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 12:39 pm to dj30
Payton had Parcells backing him & putting a good word out for him across the league for him. It was only a matter of time before he became a head coach for some team.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 1:03 pm to BigBrod81
This is why Gentry's teams have not been good:
Offensive rating on the left, defensive rating on the right:
Suns 2012-13: 101.2 (29th) 108.1 (23rd)
Suns 2011-12: 106.2 (9th) 106.5 (24th)
Suns 2010-11: 109.5 (9th) 110.4 (25th)
Suns 2009-10: 115.3 (1st) 110.2 (23rd)
Suns 2008-09: 113.6 (2nd) 111.6 (26th)
LAC 2002-03: 102.3 (22nd) 106.8 (25th)
LAC 2001-02: 105.5 (11th) 106.0 (19th)
LAC 2000-01: 101.3 (18th) 104.5 (19th)
DET 1999-00: 107.3 (4th) 105.8 (21st)
DET 1998-99: 104.2 (10th) 100.3 (9th)
DET 1997-98: 105.3 (13th) 103.5 (9th)
MIA 1994-95: 108.2 (14th) 109.9 (18th)
AVG: 12th offense, 20th defense
The offenses have been "okay" most seasons, with a couple really good seasons, but the defenses have been some of the worst in the league every year he's coached.
Monty Williams is known as a defensive coach, and the defense wasn't good with the Pelicans. I know this isn't a popular opinion... but it's possible the defense doesn't get any better, and may even get worse.
Offensive rating on the left, defensive rating on the right:
Suns 2012-13: 101.2 (29th) 108.1 (23rd)
Suns 2011-12: 106.2 (9th) 106.5 (24th)
Suns 2010-11: 109.5 (9th) 110.4 (25th)
Suns 2009-10: 115.3 (1st) 110.2 (23rd)
Suns 2008-09: 113.6 (2nd) 111.6 (26th)
LAC 2002-03: 102.3 (22nd) 106.8 (25th)
LAC 2001-02: 105.5 (11th) 106.0 (19th)
LAC 2000-01: 101.3 (18th) 104.5 (19th)
DET 1999-00: 107.3 (4th) 105.8 (21st)
DET 1998-99: 104.2 (10th) 100.3 (9th)
DET 1997-98: 105.3 (13th) 103.5 (9th)
MIA 1994-95: 108.2 (14th) 109.9 (18th)
AVG: 12th offense, 20th defense
The offenses have been "okay" most seasons, with a couple really good seasons, but the defenses have been some of the worst in the league every year he's coached.
Monty Williams is known as a defensive coach, and the defense wasn't good with the Pelicans. I know this isn't a popular opinion... but it's possible the defense doesn't get any better, and may even get worse.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 1:13 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
. I know this isn't a popular opinion... but it's possible the defense doesn't get any better, and may even get worse.
On the surface, it's a reasonable question. But I don't think Demps is an idiot, and neither is Gentry. They are aware that the Pels' defense has to improve.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 1:17 pm to VOR
Well of course they're not idiots. But Gentry knows that his team needs to have good defense. All coaches know that. Yet his team has never had a good defense, and has often had really bad defense. So even though he knows it, he hasn't produced results there.
Now, he may have some better defensive players on this team than his teams of the past. But if Monty Williams couldn't produce a good defense with that group, I'm not sure Alvin Gentry will.
Now, he may have some better defensive players on this team than his teams of the past. But if Monty Williams couldn't produce a good defense with that group, I'm not sure Alvin Gentry will.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 1:17 pm to PrimeTime Money
Are you really trying to say monty is a good defensive coach?
Posted on 5/31/15 at 1:18 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Now, he may have some better defensive players on this team than his teams of the past. But if Monty Williams couldn't produce a good defense with that group, I'm not sure Alvin Gentry will.
What I really mean is that, in spite of the primary reason for the hire (an offensive scheme that fits the roster), I think Demps and Gentry will be particularly attentive to improving the defense, as well.
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