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Posted on 4/4/16 at 11:36 am to DelU249
Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie. Always has been.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 11:41 am to AlxTgr
quote:
And yet...
Yeah, turning a planet into a DS was pure assinine. That one, I won't even try to defend.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 11:49 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:It's not my favorite, but I love it. I can easily ignore or maybe just get over the ewoks. I also don't get the love for Empire.
Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie. Always has been.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 11:52 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I also don't get the love for Empire.
Long story short, you as the audience discover things and you do so through visuals and uncertain exposition that leaves certain details to the imagination. It's also a high mark for visual effects while being a nearly flawless film.
Jedi is the most heavy handed in terms of expository dialogue while discovering almost nothing new. To say it's a disappointing end to the OT is an understatement
Empire is almost entirely new. New things, new information, new characters, new ideas. Jedi is a soft remake of the original which is what everyone who hates the force awakens says they dislike about that movie
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 11:59 am
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:08 pm to 19
Empire is my favorite movie, all-time. Return of the Jedi, though flawed, holds a special place in heart because of my age when it was released.
My dad took me to see Jedi and the scene in Jabba's palace was unlike anything I'd ever seen in a movie theater. Jabba on the big screen was massive and his voice was booming and terrifying. The Yoda scene and the throne room all felt like I was there. Emotional and ominous.
I was 7 years old, so needless to say, the filter I was passing the film through was one of awe and childlike excitement. Obviously there's a reason why 7 year-olds don't write film reviews.
I've seen the original trilogy far too many times to count, especially since my 4 year old is into Star Wars and I have a strict, "No prequel" policy.
Return has some really strong moments and definitely some disjointed elements.
I think there was too much going on in parallel in the third act to really emotionally invest. The Ewoks to me weren't the problem so much as it was unnecessary to have the Endor battle consume so much screen time. The space battle was fun and the throne room scenes were great.
Unfortunately, when you put all the components together and bounce back and forth, it really pulls you out of the weight of the situation on the Death Star.
I'd heard that Lucas hired Marquand to direct Jedi because he saw him as someone who could pull emotional performances from actors. Many argue that Lucas wanted someone that wasn't established in Hollywood circles, so he could manipulate the direction of the film. In Empire, Kirschner didn't kowtow to Lucas' input and as a result the final product was critically acclaimed but one Lucas didn't feel met his vision for the film.
I love Jedi but it does fall third, in my opinion, of the original trilogy.
One scene though that always stands out to me, is the scene where Luke confronts Vader on Endor. "it is too late for me, son" was the first time you could sense humanity in Vader and see the internal struggle. Then as Luke says "then my father is truly dead" and is lead away, Vader steps to the rail and stares off into the night. Silent. The conflict was so well filmed that you could almost see emotion in that plastic mask. Really cool scene.
My dad took me to see Jedi and the scene in Jabba's palace was unlike anything I'd ever seen in a movie theater. Jabba on the big screen was massive and his voice was booming and terrifying. The Yoda scene and the throne room all felt like I was there. Emotional and ominous.
I was 7 years old, so needless to say, the filter I was passing the film through was one of awe and childlike excitement. Obviously there's a reason why 7 year-olds don't write film reviews.
I've seen the original trilogy far too many times to count, especially since my 4 year old is into Star Wars and I have a strict, "No prequel" policy.
Return has some really strong moments and definitely some disjointed elements.
I think there was too much going on in parallel in the third act to really emotionally invest. The Ewoks to me weren't the problem so much as it was unnecessary to have the Endor battle consume so much screen time. The space battle was fun and the throne room scenes were great.
Unfortunately, when you put all the components together and bounce back and forth, it really pulls you out of the weight of the situation on the Death Star.
I'd heard that Lucas hired Marquand to direct Jedi because he saw him as someone who could pull emotional performances from actors. Many argue that Lucas wanted someone that wasn't established in Hollywood circles, so he could manipulate the direction of the film. In Empire, Kirschner didn't kowtow to Lucas' input and as a result the final product was critically acclaimed but one Lucas didn't feel met his vision for the film.
I love Jedi but it does fall third, in my opinion, of the original trilogy.
One scene though that always stands out to me, is the scene where Luke confronts Vader on Endor. "it is too late for me, son" was the first time you could sense humanity in Vader and see the internal struggle. Then as Luke says "then my father is truly dead" and is lead away, Vader steps to the rail and stares off into the night. Silent. The conflict was so well filmed that you could almost see emotion in that plastic mask. Really cool scene.
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:29 pm to cleeveclever
quote:i actually don't think this would be a problem if done with the same tone, but the ewoks ruin it...moreover, the real problem is you have 3 things going on, one of them is pretty boring and doesn't utilize the characters at all, the other is a retread of the first movie and again doesn't do anything with the characters
I think there was too much going on in parallel in the third act to really emotionally invest.
I agree, it's very disjointed. for me though, it's the whole thing. the opening scene is the two droids walking and talking and it's through them that we're introduced to jabba...weak.
then the whole sequence goes on for 40 boring minutes. I've come to appreciate strong opening scenes in movies. ironically, empire is kind of unique in that there's no BOOM opening scene, but empire is a unique movie in many ways.
then we get to our rehash of the original. a huge problem is that many of our characters have no purpose. leia, han, chewie, 3po, and r2 are just there and lando is flying a plane...vader, luke and the emperor are pretty useless throughout the movie until you get to the throne room scenes.
It just bores me, but I can relate to having a special place for a movie you saw with your dad as a child...that's batman 1989 for me, but that movie has crazy style, doesn't suck and is a movie full of so many memorable lines and images
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:32 pm to DelU249
quote:
vader, luke and the emperor are pretty useless throughout the movie until you get to the throne room scenes.
"Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:36 pm to Ace Midnight
you're missing out with the force awakens...it's a soft reboot in a sense, but the characters are unique and interesting again.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:41 pm to DelU249
quote:
you're missing out with the force awakens
Nope. They got me with that one on the so-called Star Trek film in 2009.
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:42 pm to Ace Midnight
star trek wasn't star trek
force awakens is definitely star wars. i'm not a huge abrams guy as you may know, but he hit a home run here.
force awakens is definitely star wars. i'm not a huge abrams guy as you may know, but he hit a home run here.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:44 pm to Ace Midnight
part of me thinks it will just piss you off even more about star trek
your favorite franchise gets a gender reassignment surgery while star wars is treated with care
your favorite franchise gets a gender reassignment surgery while star wars is treated with care
Posted on 4/4/16 at 12:53 pm to DelU249
I freely admit to being unhelpable on this issue. My immediate family (who convinced me to watch that g-dawful film when I got back from Iraq) refuse to discuss it with me and walk away if I start a rant about it.
True story.
True story.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:01 pm to DelU249
quote:Yeah, nothing says Star Wars like random tentacle monsters running around a spaceship.
force awakens is definitely star wars
That movie sucked. You just have your Fleshlight Saber on.
And Star Wars is frequently mentioned as one of the best films ever made. Empire is not.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:13 pm to blueboy
we'll just go back and forth all day. we've had this discussion so many times. Star Wars is the hallmark moment, ground breaking film, it's an absolutely important moment in pop culture, I just think empire is the much better film. The producer of both movies says as much. I don't think your opinion is that outlandish, I just reference that as a validation of my own. I'm not crazy
we've had this discussion so many times. Star Wars is the hallmark moment, ground breaking film, it's an absolutely important moment in pop culture, I just think empire is the much better film. The producer of both movies says as much. I don't think your opinion is that outlandish, I just reference that as a validation of my own. I'm not crazy Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:16 pm to blueboy
quote:
And Star Wars is frequently mentioned as one of the best films ever made. Empire is not.
You and I don't disagree on the M/TV board very often - so I say this reluctantly:
Yeah, it kind of is. There are few truly great sequels, and those that are often involve being part of an intended trilogy or sequence of films. To get the obvious one out of the way first:
Godfather and Godfather II - there are advocates on each side of the line and those like me who find them too close to call. Both of these films won best picture and are genre-defining and in some cases career defining for absolute A+ grade actors such as Brando (I only), Pacino and Deniro (II only).
After that - the list becomes fairly short. Setting aside the Bond films for a whole host of good reasons - there are a slew of great Science Fiction/fantasy sequels, but few are GOAT contenders. The short list:
Aliens
Terminator 2 (Cameron went from being one of my favorite directors to one of my least favorite in just a couple of films)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
LOTR: The Two Towers (and, to be fair, Return of the King)
Back to the Future (the trilogy remained solid, but never equaled the first film, IMHO.)
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Now, obviously, I'm partial to The Wrath of Khan. But Empire is rightfully considered one of the greatest movies of all time. Some Star Wars fans place it ahead of "A New... - frick it - Star Wars. I both agree with that ranking (Empire slightly better than Star Wars, but very close) and completely understand those who put the original first.
Regardless, those 2 are superior to Jedi which is a somewhat disappointing final chapter to some. I think it had impossible expectations and that hurts it as well. At the end of the day, those are the best films in the "series" (if we can even call it that - I no longer recognize any Star Wars film after Jedi.)
Jedi - for all its flaws - is a great movie, just not as great as Star Wars or Empire, IMHO.
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:25 pm to DelU249
quote:I feel like these threads are just elaborate troll wagers.
we've had this discussion so many times
"Okay, 5 bucks says blueboy posts on the first page. 10 gets you 20 that he posts the AFI Top 100 list."
And you and Gary Kurtz need to get married.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:28 pm to blueboy
Dark crystal
Return to oz
Star Wars
Empire
There's a consistent style across those movies and it's hard to imagine that he wasn't a big part of that
Return to oz
Star Wars
Empire
There's a consistent style across those movies and it's hard to imagine that he wasn't a big part of that
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:29 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:By whom?
But Empire is rightfully considered one of the greatest movies of all time.
Who wins if I post the AFI Top 100 list? I'll do it if it's someone I like.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:40 pm to cleeveclever
quote:
The Ewoks to me weren't the problem
I love Ewoks. I didn't even know people hated Ewoks until recently.
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