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AFI isn't the only authority for ranking movies. That juggle shite around their lists all the time, depending on what's "in" or "out."

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I have never seen an "all time" list that includes Empire. It's a great movie, but it has a lot of problems, shitty dialogue being one of them.

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Hitler and Stalin were men of the year, back in the day. It doesn't mean they condone the guy, but just his impact on events.

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Right, but what I'm saying is that KJU's nomination was 100% driven by assholes on the internet. It was a manufactured consensus.

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You're extraordinarily difficult to like, even when I agree with you.

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I burn a lot of bridges. It's a personal problem, but frick it. I can't live without passion.

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I have never seen an "all time" list that includes Empire.

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I linked you one. Plus I linked another poll with Empire better than Star Wars.

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shitty dialogue being one of them.

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Shittier than Star Wars? (I mean, they're both simple films. I don't think either is shitty. I don't see the dialogue being noticeably better in one over the other - that's why I ask).

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It was a manufactured consensus.

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Perhaps. But Empire's critical acclaim isn't. It isn't manufactured. It has evolved over the passage of time. Casablanca, while acclaimed, took some time before it was considered a GOAT candidate - particularly over Citizen Kane. Folks were slow to come around to Pulp Fiction and even slower to Shawshank, just to name a couple.

Saying Empire is better is not the same as saying Star Wars is bad. It is very akin to the Godfather/Godfather II debate among fans. And just as legitimate here. Very few sequels equal or exceed a great first chapter. Aliens is close, Terminator 2 - on a good day - pulls it off (I'm very fond of the original). Godfather II is close. Empire gets there - by the slimmest of margins. And I didn't get that from the internet.

Let's get to brass tacks - the best character in Star Wars is (real) Darth Vader - by a significant margin over Han Solo in clear second place. Empire's strength is that it is - essentially, Darth Vader: The Movie. The only thing happening outside of Vader's machinations is Luke training with Yoda. Even then, Vader is able to use the force, passively, to draw Luke into his trap. The best villains make the best movies - and the films with the strongest villainous performance will almost always produced the best final product. This is why Alan Rickman and Gary Oldman were in such demand over the past 30 years, for example. This is why the first Die Hard film remains the best, or the middle Nolan Batman film is the only one seriously worth rewatching and studying.

And it is why Empire is the best Star Wars film and one of the greatest films of all time.

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It's a personal problem, but frick it. I can't live without passion.

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You recall how I am treated regarding my opinion about the terrible, g-dawful, Abrams 2009 so-called "Star Trek" film, right (opinions I believe you largely share)?

So, I understand where you're coming from, in that respect. It is your somewhat flippant, dickishness that is off-putting, not your passionate opinions.

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Did we quit building B-17s when many were shot down? Did we quit using space shuttles after Challenge

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I'm not even arguing that, if the Empire actually in real life existed it should never try to build another Death Star. I would just like to see something different. It's like if the Avengers have to keep fighting new versions of Ultron every movie.

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Seeing my hero, Han Solo, frozen in carbonite at the end of TESB was torture. If nothing else, I'll always remember ROTJ as the film in which Han was saved and helped save the galaxy.

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But if I had to say RotJ's biggest flaw, this is it. They should have killed Han. In retrospect it's ok due to them making up for it in TFA, but it wasn't for 30+ years.

Can't wait till 10am when i.can go.purchase the Force awakens blue ray. Awesomeness.

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The more recent part stems - initially - from efforts to blunt criticism of the prequels. More recently, and what I believe you're talking about is the Abrams fanboys trying to elevate TFA - with the ludicrous position of ranking TFA after Star Wars/Empire (whatever the order of the 2 or 1a and 1b).

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You haven't even seen it yet as I seem to recall from earlier in this thread. The only reason you hate it is you don't like the Star Trek films he made. That and you heard it has a very similar plot to the original. You can't call it ridiculous unless you've seen it.

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Well, to be fair, even at the time it was clearly the weakest of the original films.

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That's always been the general view. But a POS? No way.

I don't think history will look back on Episode 7 as favorably as they do now -- at least not Star Wars fans. The plot takes far too much from Episode 4 and other films in the original trilogy, the logic is questionable in places (landing on a planet at light speed) and a lot felt cut out or rushed (sneaking through Starkiller base, Captain Pharma's entire role).

Ultimately I can now understand a lot of the criticisms Trekkies had with JJ Abrams Star Trek films even though I loved them. You're a lot more willing to overlook tiny flaws and inconsistencies when you don't go into the theater a die hard fan of the franchise and are just looking for a good movie.

As for Episode 6, It may be the weakest of the original trilogy, but it's still one of my favorite films.

You haven't seen it...not an Abrams fanboy as you know but TFA is infinitely superior to Jedi and both copy the original