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re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:31 pm to jrodLSUke
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:31 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
But put it all together and it there is plenty of evidence to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt.
No there is not. That's about the only thing WE DO know isn't true with certainty. He might have done it. It might even be likely that he did it. But the case that was presented to him was indescribably dishonest and weak.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:35 pm to buckeye_vol
Again, you are taking one piece of evidence and working to cast doubt on Adnan's guilt. Don does not have Jay testifying that he murdered Hae. Don also has a solid alibi, did not have a new cell phone, did not let Jay borrow a cell phone, did not let Jay borrow his car, did not ask Hae for a ride after school, did not write "I will kill" on a note about Hae, and did not call his friends from a phone in Jay's possession during his alibi.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:37 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
No there is not.
Yes, there is. A jury did in fact convict Adnan of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:39 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:You said it was the most compelling evidence of his guilt. It's stranger that Don didn't call her, and he's most likely not guilty. So if it's not evidence that Don may be guilty when it's more atypical for the current BF not to attempt to contact her, then it's not evidence Adnan is guilty. You can't have it both ways.
Again, you are taking one piece of evidence and working to cast doubt on Adnan's guilt.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:41 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:Yeah. A jury that had no idea that Urick was lying about cell phone evidence, that Jay's story was allegedly coached by police, and that Jay was not only not being charged with a single crime, they had threatened the murder charge if he did not testify.
Yes, there is. A jury did in fact convict Adnan of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:45 pm to buckeye_vol
There is a mountain of evidence against Adnan. I just picked one thing out of that pile that is fascinating to me. If that was the only bit of evidence against Adana, I would feel differently. But it's not. He is guilty.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:52 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:If a single piece of evidence is not really evidence of anything by itself, then we should be skeptical of it. When the case relies on this type of evidence then we should be skeptical of it. When we find it some of it was false, we should be more skeptical of it. As it stands, based on what we know now, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is just not supported by the evidence.
There is a mountain of evidence against Adnan. I just picked one thing out of that pile that is fascinating to me. If that was the only bit of evidence against Adana, I would feel differently. But it's not. He is guilty.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:02 pm to buckeye_vol
I always had the feeling Don was never really into her that much. He was an older guy. They've only been dating for a couple weeks. Also, Hae was the one who pursued him and basically asked him out on multiple occasions. And Don showed no inclination that he would leave his girlfriend for her and only finally agreed to date Hae after he broke up with his girlfriend.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:06 pm to jrodLSUke
Any discussion of this case always has to be two-fold:
1.) Did Adnan kill her?
2.) Should he have been convicted based on the evidence presented.
The likely answer to #1 is that he did based on the fact that there is circumstantial evidence backed up by the inexplicable fact that Adnan was not able to easily account for his whereabouts within the small window in which the murder was supposedly committed. Add to that the fact that the guy that hung Adnan was Jay and Jay's story, as problemicatic as it has been in some aspects, is essentially backed up in general because he knew where Hae's car was located.
For Jay's story to be completely bogus, the cops would have had to actively work with him to frame Adnan including feeding Jay as to where the car was located.
Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
1.) Did Adnan kill her?
2.) Should he have been convicted based on the evidence presented.
The likely answer to #1 is that he did based on the fact that there is circumstantial evidence backed up by the inexplicable fact that Adnan was not able to easily account for his whereabouts within the small window in which the murder was supposedly committed. Add to that the fact that the guy that hung Adnan was Jay and Jay's story, as problemicatic as it has been in some aspects, is essentially backed up in general because he knew where Hae's car was located.
For Jay's story to be completely bogus, the cops would have had to actively work with him to frame Adnan including feeding Jay as to where the car was located.
Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 6:11 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:24 pm to Scoop
quote:
Any discussion of this case always has to be two-fold:
1.) Did Adnan kill her?
2.) Should he have been convicted based on the evidence presented.
The likely answer to #1 is that he did based on the fact that there is circumstantial evidence backed up by the inexplicable fact that Adnan was not able to easily account for his whereabouts within the small window in which the murder was supposedly committed. Add to that the fact that the guy that hung Adnan was Jay and Jay's story, as problemicatic as it has been in some aspects, is essentially backed up in general because he knew where Hae's car was located.
For Jay's story to be completely bogus, the cops would have had to actively work with him to frame Adnan including feeding Jay as to where the car was located.
Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
Mostly this.
The prosecutor is clearly a lying scumbag and has been caught in his lies.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:44 pm to Scoop
quote:
Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
Except that it was IRL.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 7:42 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:Just because a jury makes a rash decision doesn't make the evidence supporting that decision any more convincing. Besides, when we consider the information the jury did not know (Jay's plea deal; the extent of the inconsistencies; Urick's lies; police possibly coaching Jay's stories; impossible events presented as facts, etc.), which we can consider, it is clear that there at least reasonable doubt.
Except that it was IRL.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 9:35 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Just because a jury makes a rash decision doesn't make the evidence supporting that decision any more convincing. Besides, when we consider the information the jury did not know (Jay's plea deal; the extent of the inconsistencies; Urick's lies; police possibly coaching Jay's stories; impossible events presented as facts, etc.), which we can consider, it is clear that there at least reasonable doubt.
I just finished he first episode of that new podcast they mentioned...even MORE stuff that Serial didn't cover that shows outrageous misconduct by both attorneys.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 9:52 am to Big Scrub TX
I listened to it, too. I think I might try to listen to the rest on the plane this weekend. I was intrigued.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 12:02 pm to The Sad Banana
I'm on the 3rd episode now. Mind officially blown. Their case that the state's timeline was actually based off of the entirely wrong date seems to be almost ironclad. This is more reasonable doubt than I ever thought would be possible.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 12:21 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
Except that it was IRL.
Right, but that doesn't mean the jury should have done so. That's the whole damn point of the appeals process.
"Except that it was IRL." You're either trolling or completely moronic.
Posted on 6/3/15 at 6:02 pm to jrodLSUke
You should seriously listen to Undisclosed (the new podcast about Serial.) I'm 3 episodes in, and there is simply nothing left of the state's case. Nothing.The entire thing was built on a mirage. And the sad thing is, all of this could have been avoided with simple detective work.
Also, not sure if anyone else saw the revelation that the 2 keystone cops in charge of the investigation have a terrible track record:
Still sticking buy your silly and naive "IRL jury" remark?
Also, not sure if anyone else saw the revelation that the 2 keystone cops in charge of the investigation have a terrible track record:
quote:
The murder of Hae Min Lee was investigated by Detectives William Ritz and Gregory MacGillivary. To date, three defendants who were convicted of murder pursuant to investigations by either Ritz or MacGillivary have since been released from prison, after it was determined that they had been wrongfully convicted.
quote:
Those defendants are Ezra Mable, Sabein Burgess, and Rodney Addison. As the civil complaint filed last week by Burgess aptly summarizes, the convictions in all three cases were
the result of the Baltimore Police Department’s policies and practices of pursuing wrongful convictions through reliance on profoundly flawed investigations. In a race to clear murder cases, the Department cut corners and rushed to judgment.
The problems in the underlying investigations ranged from simple incompetence — such as failure to interview obvious witnesses or to properly preserve forensic evidence — to intentional distortions of the evidentiary record — such as the fabrication of witness reports. In each of these cases, the investigators’ tunnel vision led them to either ignore or avoid evidence that contradicted their chosen theory of the case, and to withhold any exculpatory evidence they accidentally stumbled upon. Moreover, in both the Mable and Burgess cases, allegations have been made of deliberate wrongdoing by police officers who prioritized clearing cases over identifying the actual perpetrators of the murders they were investigating. Improving the detectives’ numbers became a higher goal than identifying criminals and building solid cases against them.
Still sticking buy your silly and naive "IRL jury" remark?
Posted on 6/8/15 at 2:44 pm to Big Scrub TX
In episode 3 of Undisclosed, Simpson basically nails the cops for flagrant coaching of the witness (Jay)...on tape!
Posted on 6/19/15 at 11:27 am to Big Scrub TX
Everyone listen to undisclosed. If they can ever get a new trial for Adnan, it's a virtual certainty that he will walk.
Posted on 6/19/15 at 11:29 am to Big Scrub TX
I am listening to it.
Just finished episode 3 (Jays Day)
The findings on the cops coaching Jay are unreal.
Just finished episode 3 (Jays Day)
The findings on the cops coaching Jay are unreal.
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