Started By
Message

re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS

Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:31 pm to
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

But put it all together and it there is plenty of evidence to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt.


No there is not. That's about the only thing WE DO know isn't true with certainty. He might have done it. It might even be likely that he did it. But the case that was presented to him was indescribably dishonest and weak.
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
22140 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:35 pm to
Again, you are taking one piece of evidence and working to cast doubt on Adnan's guilt. Don does not have Jay testifying that he murdered Hae. Don also has a solid alibi, did not have a new cell phone, did not let Jay borrow a cell phone, did not let Jay borrow his car, did not ask Hae for a ride after school, did not write "I will kill" on a note about Hae, and did not call his friends from a phone in Jay's possession during his alibi.
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
22140 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

No there is not.

Yes, there is. A jury did in fact convict Adnan of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:39 pm to
quote:

Again, you are taking one piece of evidence and working to cast doubt on Adnan's guilt.
You said it was the most compelling evidence of his guilt. It's stranger that Don didn't call her, and he's most likely not guilty. So if it's not evidence that Don may be guilty when it's more atypical for the current BF not to attempt to contact her, then it's not evidence Adnan is guilty. You can't have it both ways.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

Yes, there is. A jury did in fact convict Adnan of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yeah. A jury that had no idea that Urick was lying about cell phone evidence, that Jay's story was allegedly coached by police, and that Jay was not only not being charged with a single crime, they had threatened the murder charge if he did not testify.
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
22140 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:45 pm to
There is a mountain of evidence against Adnan. I just picked one thing out of that pile that is fascinating to me. If that was the only bit of evidence against Adana, I would feel differently. But it's not. He is guilty.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:52 pm to
quote:

There is a mountain of evidence against Adnan. I just picked one thing out of that pile that is fascinating to me. If that was the only bit of evidence against Adana, I would feel differently. But it's not. He is guilty.
If a single piece of evidence is not really evidence of anything by itself, then we should be skeptical of it. When the case relies on this type of evidence then we should be skeptical of it. When we find it some of it was false, we should be more skeptical of it. As it stands, based on what we know now, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is just not supported by the evidence.
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
33939 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:02 pm to
I always had the feeling Don was never really into her that much. He was an older guy. They've only been dating for a couple weeks. Also, Hae was the one who pursued him and basically asked him out on multiple occasions. And Don showed no inclination that he would leave his girlfriend for her and only finally agreed to date Hae after he broke up with his girlfriend.
Posted by Scoop
RIP Scoop
Member since Sep 2005
44583 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:06 pm to
Any discussion of this case always has to be two-fold:

1.) Did Adnan kill her?

2.) Should he have been convicted based on the evidence presented.

The likely answer to #1 is that he did based on the fact that there is circumstantial evidence backed up by the inexplicable fact that Adnan was not able to easily account for his whereabouts within the small window in which the murder was supposedly committed. Add to that the fact that the guy that hung Adnan was Jay and Jay's story, as problemicatic as it has been in some aspects, is essentially backed up in general because he knew where Hae's car was located.

For Jay's story to be completely bogus, the cops would have had to actively work with him to frame Adnan including feeding Jay as to where the car was located.

Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 6:11 pm
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

Any discussion of this case always has to be two-fold:

1.) Did Adnan kill her?

2.) Should he have been convicted based on the evidence presented.

The likely answer to #1 is that he did based on the fact that there is circumstantial evidence backed up by the inexplicable fact that Adnan was not able to easily account for his whereabouts within the small window in which the murder was supposedly committed. Add to that the fact that the guy that hung Adnan was Jay and Jay's story, as problemicatic as it has been in some aspects, is essentially backed up in general because he knew where Hae's car was located.

For Jay's story to be completely bogus, the cops would have had to actively work with him to frame Adnan including feeding Jay as to where the car was located.

Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.


Mostly this.

The prosecutor is clearly a lying scumbag and has been caught in his lies.
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
22140 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.

Except that it was IRL.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 5/19/15 at 7:42 pm to
quote:

Except that it was IRL.
Just because a jury makes a rash decision doesn't make the evidence supporting that decision any more convincing. Besides, when we consider the information the jury did not know (Jay's plea deal; the extent of the inconsistencies; Urick's lies; police possibly coaching Jay's stories; impossible events presented as facts, etc.), which we can consider, it is clear that there at least reasonable doubt.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 5/20/15 at 9:35 am to
quote:

Just because a jury makes a rash decision doesn't make the evidence supporting that decision any more convincing. Besides, when we consider the information the jury did not know (Jay's plea deal; the extent of the inconsistencies; Urick's lies; police possibly coaching Jay's stories; impossible events presented as facts, etc.), which we can consider, it is clear that there at least reasonable doubt.


I just finished he first episode of that new podcast they mentioned...even MORE stuff that Serial didn't cover that shows outrageous misconduct by both attorneys.
Posted by The Sad Banana
The gate is narrow.
Member since Jul 2008
89498 posts
Posted on 5/20/15 at 9:52 am to
I listened to it, too. I think I might try to listen to the rest on the plane this weekend. I was intrigued.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 5/27/15 at 12:02 pm to
I'm on the 3rd episode now. Mind officially blown. Their case that the state's timeline was actually based off of the entirely wrong date seems to be almost ironclad. This is more reasonable doubt than I ever thought would be possible.
Posted by LoveThatMoney
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
12268 posts
Posted on 5/27/15 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

Now, was the case strong enough to get a unanimous verdict based on hard evidence? Hell no.

Except that it was IRL.


Right, but that doesn't mean the jury should have done so. That's the whole damn point of the appeals process.

"Except that it was IRL." You're either trolling or completely moronic.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 6/3/15 at 6:02 pm to
You should seriously listen to Undisclosed (the new podcast about Serial.) I'm 3 episodes in, and there is simply nothing left of the state's case. Nothing.The entire thing was built on a mirage. And the sad thing is, all of this could have been avoided with simple detective work.

Also, not sure if anyone else saw the revelation that the 2 keystone cops in charge of the investigation have a terrible track record:

quote:

The murder of Hae Min Lee was investigated by Detectives William Ritz and Gregory MacGillivary. To date, three defendants who were convicted of murder pursuant to investigations by either Ritz or MacGillivary have since been released from prison, after it was determined that they had been wrongfully convicted.

quote:


Those defendants are Ezra Mable, Sabein Burgess, and Rodney Addison. As the civil complaint filed last week by Burgess aptly summarizes, the convictions in all three cases were

the result of the Baltimore Police Department’s policies and practices of pursuing wrongful convictions through reliance on profoundly flawed investigations. In a race to clear murder cases, the Department cut corners and rushed to judgment.

The problems in the underlying investigations ranged from simple incompetence — such as failure to interview obvious witnesses or to properly preserve forensic evidence — to intentional distortions of the evidentiary record — such as the fabrication of witness reports. In each of these cases, the investigators’ tunnel vision led them to either ignore or avoid evidence that contradicted their chosen theory of the case, and to withhold any exculpatory evidence they accidentally stumbled upon. Moreover, in both the Mable and Burgess cases, allegations have been made of deliberate wrongdoing by police officers who prioritized clearing cases over identifying the actual perpetrators of the murders they were investigating. Improving the detectives’ numbers became a higher goal than identifying criminals and building solid cases against them.


Still sticking buy your silly and naive "IRL jury" remark?
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 6/8/15 at 2:44 pm to
In episode 3 of Undisclosed, Simpson basically nails the cops for flagrant coaching of the witness (Jay)...on tape!
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 6/19/15 at 11:27 am to
Everyone listen to undisclosed. If they can ever get a new trial for Adnan, it's a virtual certainty that he will walk.
Posted by Mouth
Member since Jan 2008
20960 posts
Posted on 6/19/15 at 11:29 am to
I am listening to it.

Just finished episode 3 (Jays Day)

The findings on the cops coaching Jay are unreal.
first pageprev pagePage 24 of 27Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram