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re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS
Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:21 pm to jrodLSUke
Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:21 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
It is just so unlikely that someone would have that much bad luck.
You are exhibiting a hindsight bias in which you fit this "unlikeliness" to a now-known narrative. Not saying he definitely didn't do it, but the "unlucky" theory is not a theory. It's just lazy.
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Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:21 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:Well being found guilty of murder--whether guilty or innocent is extraordinarily bad luck. Besides, the bad luck in this case not independent.
It is just so unlikely that someone would have that much bad luck.
quote:That's the thing we don't even know when she was murdered. That brings in the bad luck part. The state doesn't know when and where she was kidnapped and murdered. So if Adnan didn't have a memory and alibi of a certain time, then that must be when he was doing something nefarious. They framed the case and facts around unaccounted for (and even accounted for times), even when it was unlikely to be true.
Not to mention that Adnan admits to hanging with Jay several times the day of Hae's murder -
Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:22 pm to Bench McElroy
You said:
Then you went on to give a very ordinary list of things that were discussed ad nauseum on Serial itself.
quote:
Read the reddit serial page or better yet read the court documents about the case. You'll end up changing your mind completely.
Then you went on to give a very ordinary list of things that were discussed ad nauseum on Serial itself.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:48 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
That's the thing we don't even know when she was murdered. That brings in the bad luck part. The state doesn't know when and where she was kidnapped and murdered.
Oh yes we do. Hae went missing at a specific day and time because she was suppose to pick up her cousin from daycare. Also, this was the same day that Adnan asked Hae for a ride because his car was in the shop, despite lending his ride and brand new phone to Jay. The day she was murdered is not in question.
And Jay testified that Hae was murdered on this day, and he proved that he had knowledge of the murder by showing the police the location of the body and her missing car. Did anyone mention that this is the same day that Adnan let Jay borrow his phone and car, and asked Hae for a ride, and didn't have an alibi for studying in a packed library despite being a popular kid, and didn't have an alibi at the time the body was buried?
Posted on 5/19/15 at 3:54 pm to jrodLSUke
The murder narrative fits Adnan because it was built off of Adnan. Not saying he did or didnt do it but im not sure "IT ALL LINES UP TOO WELL!" is worth anything.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:00 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:It's logical that she died the day she went missing, but it's not an irrefutable fact. We don't know when and where she was murdered.
The day she was murdered is not in question.
quote:He didn't show the police the body; that was already known. As for the car, Jay testified that he drove right by it on a regular basis as part of his normal routine unrelated to the murder.
and he proved that he had knowledge of the murder by showing the police the location of the body and her missing car.
quote:Ummmm he has an alibi for being in the library (Asia McClain). This is why he may get another appeal.
didn't have an alibi for studying in a packed library
quote:Which time? The 8 o'clock timeline from trial, or Jay's post-midnight timeline from his recent interview.
and didn't have an alibi at the time the body was buried?
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:02 pm to Hester Carries
Well then I'm back to Adnan being the most unlucky dude to ever live. Because we know that Hae was murdered, and we know that Jay had knowledge of the murder, and we know that Jay says that Adnan confessed to the murder. So if Adnan was innocent, then that means he let someone who was involved in his ex-girlfriend's murder borrow his phone, borrow his car, and then hung out with that same guy on the same day. Oh and he also wrote "I Will Kill" on a note about his murdered ex-girlfriend.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:08 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:As well as the thousands of people who have been wrongly convicted and later exonerated based on unlucky information. This includes two individuals in Baltimore who were wrongly convicted around the time of Adnan's trial.
Well then I'm back to Adnan being the most unlucky dude to ever live.
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:13 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
he has an alibi for being in the library (Asia McClain).
That alibi is so week that it wasn't even presented in trial. Adnan also claimed to be on a computer and checking his emails, but there was no record that he did that. He also claimed to have called Jay on his cell phone to come pick him up, but there was no record of that either. There is, however, a record of Adnan using his cell phone at the time he is supposed to be in the library (oh that's right, it was a butt dial - how very unlucky). There is also a record of Adnan using his cell at the time the body was disposed, when he claims to be in Mosque (oh, I guess that was a butt dial as well).
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:16 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Oh and he also wrote "I Will Kill" on a note about his murdered ex-girlfriend.
You already said this kid was smart and could create enough doubt. This would be dumb of a smart kid to do.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:17 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:You mean no record of the come and get me call?
He also claimed to have called Jay on his cell phone to come pick him up, but there was no record of that either.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:19 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:You mean it's so weak that Urick had to lie about it, and it may be enough to be granted an appeal.
That alibi is so week that it wasn't even presented in trial.
This post was edited on 5/19/15 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:20 pm to buckeye_vol
Yes. He would have had to use a phone at the school for the come and get me call, but there is no record that Adnan used a school phone.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:28 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:interestingly there is no record of the location for the majority incoming calls. That includes the implausible Best Buy call that Jay himself says doesn't happen for much later.
Yes. He would have had to use a phone at the school for the come and get me call, but there is no record that Adnan used a school phone
We know that around the time Jay said he was at Jens house, although he was calling Jen's house from a location far away.
We now know that it's unlikely that the Kathy story happened on that day too.
We also know that uric straight up lied about a phone call as he said it was evidence that Adnan with accessing his voicemail when the AT&T bill clearly indicates that it was a call going to voicemail. This was supposed to be the evidence showing that add non-couldn't have been at track practice.
Basically the timeline and the details present at trial, whether he did it or not, are most likely false.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:35 pm to buckeye_vol
OK, here is a scenario for you:
Let's say, for the sake of this scenario, that Adnan, Jay and Jen are all guilty, more or less. So, Jay and Jen start to get nervous when the cops start asking them questions and decide to invent a story that puts it all on Adnan. (Which their story IRL does.) What can Adnan do about it at this point? If he is guilty of involvement, he can't turn it back around on Jay and Jen without implicating himself. He would be forced to stick with an "I'm completely innocent" story as his defense.
This is what I think happened, and Jay and Jen pretty much got away with murder.
Let's say, for the sake of this scenario, that Adnan, Jay and Jen are all guilty, more or less. So, Jay and Jen start to get nervous when the cops start asking them questions and decide to invent a story that puts it all on Adnan. (Which their story IRL does.) What can Adnan do about it at this point? If he is guilty of involvement, he can't turn it back around on Jay and Jen without implicating himself. He would be forced to stick with an "I'm completely innocent" story as his defense.
This is what I think happened, and Jay and Jen pretty much got away with murder.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:39 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:It's possible. The problem is that the case has so many holes with other alternative scenarios, that he shouldn't have been found guilty, regardless if he is truly guilty or innocent.
This is what I think happened, and Jay and Jen pretty much got away with murder.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:45 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
You already said this kid was smart and could create enough doubt. This would be dumb of a smart kid to do.
Not really. By itself, it doesn't prove anything. But when you look at all the circumstantial evidence against Adnan, it just adds one more log to the fire.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 4:49 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:That's the thing though. Even if he did it, a lot of the evidence presented has either been shown to be false (track phone call) or it is unrelated to the murder in the first place (Hae's Diary).
Not really. By itself, it doesn't prove anything. But when you look at all the circumstantial evidence against Adnan, it just adds one more log to the fire.
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:09 pm to buckeye_vol
But there is still plenty of circumstantial evidence to support the theory that Adnan was Hae's killer. Sure, take any one piece of evidence and you can cast a shadow of a doubt on Adnan's guilt. But put it all together and it there is plenty of evidence to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt.
The evidence that is most compelling for me: The night before Hae's murder, Adnan calls her and two other girls that he's been "talking" to. The night of Hae's murder, after being contacted by the police about her disappearance, he doesn't bother to call her on his brand new cell phone - but he does call the other two girls. (or is this just more bad luck?)
The evidence that is most compelling for me: The night before Hae's murder, Adnan calls her and two other girls that he's been "talking" to. The night of Hae's murder, after being contacted by the police about her disappearance, he doesn't bother to call her on his brand new cell phone - but he does call the other two girls. (or is this just more bad luck?)
Posted on 5/19/15 at 5:12 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:So you must think there is compelling evidence that Don killed her then since he didn't call her and he was the one who was dating her at the time.
The night of Hae's murder, after being contacted by the police about her disappearance, he doesn't bother to call her on his brand new cell phone - but he does call the other two girls. (or is this just more bad luck
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