re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS

Finished Serial last week and now 1 episode of Undisclosed. If this has been previously talked about in thread I apologize. Has any research ever been completed on the type of cell phone Adnan purchased two days prior to Jan 13? Meaning did anyone look into the possibility of whether or not a butt dial was even plausible. If he buys a flip phone, it most certainly was not. If he bought one of those popular Nokia phones that came out around that time it's possible although still not likely IMO

Thanks

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There's also evidence that a tip was called in to Crimestoppers before the tip identified on Serial. And that tip resulted in the award being paid in full meaning it somehow led to Adnan's conviction. Speculation is that Jay is the only logical choice to be the person to make the call. The question is what was revealed? The body still wasn't found for another week or two later so it wasn't that. It wasn't the car...unless the cops hid that for awhile. It's possible Jay made a money play by pointing to Adnan and got roped into the investigation with his unrelated arrest.

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And have you gotten to the teacher selling the motorcycle yet? That's another weird piece of the crime stoppers puzzle.

I'm super late to this party, but I've just finished listening to serial and most of undisclosed so I thought I'd share my thoughts. At this point I feel about 90% sure Adnan did it. The two biggest defenses of Adnan that are presented in serial are 1) his suspected motive seems pretty weak 2)Jay's story is a mess. So let's look at the motive. Yeah, it might be a bit surprising that Adnan would still be carrying that kind of animosity towards Hae months after they broke up, but what would be the motive for Jay or some other third party? Jay would have almost no reason to kill Hae, except possibly anger with Adnan for being close to his girlfriend or hatred towards magnet students. Both of these motives are FAR less likely than Adnan's. Then what about someone else? What if a serial killer or someone did it? Well, if this were the case, this third person would have had to involved Jay in some way. Because Jay knew where Hae's car was. And even if he didn't, why the frick would he associate himself with a murder that he had nothing to do with? The serial killer possibility is the least likely. First of all, they'd have to have some sort of obsession with Hae (which is unlikely) then they'd have to do all sorts of research on Hae and Adnan's relationship, plot out a way to make it look like Adnan did it, get Jay to execute the plan, all while not even raising any suspicion from Adnan. I mean, even to this day Adnan has made no statements suggesting that he felt suspicious of Jay. If Jay or some unknown serial killer murdered Hae, then one of them is an absolute genius. A psychopathic mastermind to orchestrate all of that. If they really wanted to get away with it, wouldn't it have been easier to just dispose of her body and get the frick out of Baltimore? On the other hand, all you have to believe is that a seemingly nice 17 old killed his ex girlfriend who happened to have just gotten a new boyfriend. In that case, no intricate mastermind plan is necessary. Actually, assuming Adnan did do it, he was relatively sloppy. Much more believable.

Next, the idea that the messiness of Jay's story somehow suggests that he's making the whole thing up. I don't buy this at all. What I think happened is that when Jay finally did begin talking to police, he had no fricking idea what time he and Adnan went where and made what phone calls that night. Unless he was keeping a log book of everything they did, it's very unlikely that he would be able to piece together every event in the correct order. All he knew was that Adnan killed Hae, he helped him bury the body, and they went a bunch of other places that night. So if he wasn't sure where they went and at what times, why didn't he just say that? Because the investigators were pressing him for answers. So he probably figured, "It's not really important where Adnan showed me Hae's body, so I'll just tell them it was at best buy instead of my grandmother's house to keep her out of this". This was probably the case with all of his claims about that night. In some cases, he didn't really know where they were at what time, and in other instances he lied about where they were in order to keep his friends and family out of it. But then when it's time to go to court, the investigators have a bit of conundrum on their hands. Their star witness has told them 4 different accounts of what happened that night. Well they can't go in there and say "Well we have no idea how it went down, but Adnan killed her". No, they had to piece together SOMETHING that made some chronological sense and would somewhat be corroborated by the cell phone records. Is it likely that the sequence of events testified by Jay in court was the actual sequence? Probably not. Is there a chance he was more involved in helping Adnan? Sure, but I feel confident in saying that there's almost no chance Adnan is completely innocent and Jay is just out to get him.

I found undisclosed to be almost laughable. Clearly the 3 lawyers desperately want Adnan to be innocent. Basically everything they say is an attempt to cast doubt on his guilt. And in all of their episodes, what real "new evidence" have they found? Pretty much nothing. All they did was continue to try to poke holes in Jay's account of the events. Something that was already achieved in Serial. A lot of people in this thread (and the undisclosed lawyers) have suggested that some kind of massive conspiracy was possible. The police, the investigators, the attorneys, Adnan's defense attorney, and Jay all worked together to frame Adnan. Is that possible? Sure. But how likely is it? You're still left with the question of what their motive to kill Hae, a random teenage girl, in the first place was. And again, why would they not have just disposed of her body if they wanted to get away with it? The logical gymnastics you have to make to believe any of these alternatives are far greater than the ones needed to believe a 17 year old had some concealed ill intentions.

Yep. And serial wasn't exactly unbiased either. I read a review that summed it up pretty well. In order for serial to be successful, there needs to be serious doubt about Adnan's guilt. Koenig achieves this by cleverly leaving out information from the trial and focusing on the less relevant portions of Jay's testimony. The prosecutors only really cared about corroborating a short period of the day with cell phone records. The rest of the day was more or less unimportant, so they didn't worry about the inconsistencies. I think Serial is an incredible piece of storytelling and entertainment, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that. You've basically got thousands of people now that think Adnan is innocent based on some clever storytelling techniques

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I think Serial is an incredible piece of storytelling and entertainment, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that. You've basically got thousands of people now that think Adnan is innocent based

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Your bias against Adnan, probably because of his ethnicity, is palpably apparent in your last few posts. You just mask it by blaming it on Sarah Koenig's story telling.

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I wish they would have made another thread for Undisclosed rather than reserect a good discussion thread to discuss conspiracy theory shite out of Undisclosed.

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Conspiracy theory?

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But the amount of people that will swallow the obviously biased and insignificant "evidence"

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Are you high? Particularly in the early episodes, the Undisclosed people were effectively doing the ORIGINAL police work that should have been done contemporaneously. Off the top of my head:

They reconstructed the days of all the lead players. There mostly indisputable findings showed that the state's timeline was impossible - to an embarrassing degree.

The spent an entire episode on bail...and found that the cops LIED to a suspect that was a minor about the penalties for the crime. They even lied to the judge (who, incredibly, seemed unaware of the law himself.) This led to the denial of bail which probably had a material impact on the defendant's ability to defend himself.

They uncovered the fax cover sheet which single-handedly destroys the state's "cellphone evidence" - although that evidence in the first place was presented in a highly dishonest fashion.


The people who keep saying "Undisclosed is biased" evidently simply decided early on that Adnan was guilty, and thus began labeling anyone who didn't immediately believe that to be "biased".

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Don's timecards were altered that day and nobody bothered to mention to the cops his own family member was the one in charge at the Lenscrafters.

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I guess just more fake evidence the Undisclosed people made up.

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There is no way that anyone on that jury should have convicted him.

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It seems like he would have been found innocent by the first jury if not for his idiot atty.

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I guess just more fake evidence the Undisclosed people made up.

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