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re: Let's hear from those complaining about the Miles "offensive philosophy"
Posted on 10/28/14 at 1:03 pm to bfniii
Posted on 10/28/14 at 1:03 pm to bfniii
bfniii, name one area you feel Miles offensive philosophy lags or maybe is lacking....one area of improvement?
I don't disagree with all that you're saying... just trying to understand you. There is always room for improvement and what works for one game may not for the next. You take a fan like myself, who I consider to be pretty positive about my opinion and support of coach and our team and make me look like the most negative person on the board.
It's cherry picking the past and a revisionist history at times.
-"Lee before the game"
-"Malzahan last year, but not this year, and he needs 5 more years to prove himself"
-Saban's success only counts from this time frame till this one.
-The history of 2-3 quarterbacks that spent 2 years in our system and had successes in others picking up skills and offensive schemes get revised to only be credited to Miles for their spurt of success within a specific time frame.
-An overlooking of the long struggles we've had at QB over the last 5+ years--Mett being the biggest outlier here.
-A host of schools that get the job done passing slightly more (but not pass happy). Teams that include Bama, Auburn, Georgia, and other schools people would never consider anything but programs built for rushing the ball.
-A pretty much general coaching consensus from across the country, heard in almost every single analyst's reviews, preached in every level of the sport, and even heard from the lips of Miles, himself-- that striving for a balanced approach at offense is something desired.
The premise and point that the OP suggests and you suggested earlier was posted after a nice win against Ole Miss. It was not posted Saturday, September 20th, or Oct 4. It implies that Miles' choice of game plan for all the games thus far this season is sound and shouldn't be criticized based on the result of the Ole Miss game.
There is simply disagreement that probably will never be resolved, because I feel that each game is different, with different matchups. I believe we face a very skilled run D in Bama; therefore, we need a small and effective passing attack to go with our rushing. This doesn't mean we abandon Miles' good attempts of limiting mistakes, but it does say let's not be predictable. It just means I'm glad we beat Ole Miss, but I hope that we can get something going in the air to help us in the future.
I don't feel our QBs have progressed at the rate at which the other areas of the team seem to be. It is not a take down of the player. It is a mere criticism that Les' philosophy is good, but needs to evolve slightly, and that having a passing threat will help our entire offense out. Nobody is suggesting we become a Pac team. But we are halfway through the season and we need to see improvement at the position, and if it isn't coming along nicely, maybe the staff should re-organize their thoughts and approach it differently.
Always room for improvement.
I don't disagree with all that you're saying... just trying to understand you. There is always room for improvement and what works for one game may not for the next. You take a fan like myself, who I consider to be pretty positive about my opinion and support of coach and our team and make me look like the most negative person on the board.
It's cherry picking the past and a revisionist history at times.
-"Lee before the game"
-"Malzahan last year, but not this year, and he needs 5 more years to prove himself"
-Saban's success only counts from this time frame till this one.
-The history of 2-3 quarterbacks that spent 2 years in our system and had successes in others picking up skills and offensive schemes get revised to only be credited to Miles for their spurt of success within a specific time frame.
-An overlooking of the long struggles we've had at QB over the last 5+ years--Mett being the biggest outlier here.
-A host of schools that get the job done passing slightly more (but not pass happy). Teams that include Bama, Auburn, Georgia, and other schools people would never consider anything but programs built for rushing the ball.
-A pretty much general coaching consensus from across the country, heard in almost every single analyst's reviews, preached in every level of the sport, and even heard from the lips of Miles, himself-- that striving for a balanced approach at offense is something desired.
The premise and point that the OP suggests and you suggested earlier was posted after a nice win against Ole Miss. It was not posted Saturday, September 20th, or Oct 4. It implies that Miles' choice of game plan for all the games thus far this season is sound and shouldn't be criticized based on the result of the Ole Miss game.
There is simply disagreement that probably will never be resolved, because I feel that each game is different, with different matchups. I believe we face a very skilled run D in Bama; therefore, we need a small and effective passing attack to go with our rushing. This doesn't mean we abandon Miles' good attempts of limiting mistakes, but it does say let's not be predictable. It just means I'm glad we beat Ole Miss, but I hope that we can get something going in the air to help us in the future.
I don't feel our QBs have progressed at the rate at which the other areas of the team seem to be. It is not a take down of the player. It is a mere criticism that Les' philosophy is good, but needs to evolve slightly, and that having a passing threat will help our entire offense out. Nobody is suggesting we become a Pac team. But we are halfway through the season and we need to see improvement at the position, and if it isn't coming along nicely, maybe the staff should re-organize their thoughts and approach it differently.
Always room for improvement.
2
Posted on 10/28/14 at 2:42 pm to marklsu
quote:i'm not concerned with nitpicking. i'm concerned with winning. negas can't see the forest because they're focused on the trees.
name one area you feel Miles offensive philosophy lags or maybe is lacking
miles mitigates risk on offense vs how the defense and special teams are doing. he's better at this than anybody except for saban. and that's why he wins so many games. i don't go to the game, sit back with my arms folded and a frown on my face saying ok miles, impress me with your offense scheme. negas aren't satisfied with winning. they want to win a certain kind of way, which is ridiculous.
quote:the point is still valid. lee clearly and objectively improved from '08 to '11
Lee before the game"
quote:that's not what i said. I said this season isn't over and they have some tough games left. They might end up not being any better than lsu.
Malzahan last year, but not this year,
quote:i didn't say that. I said he needs to produce elite results for AT LEAST 5 more years before he is even in the conversation of being as good as miles
and he needs 5 more years to prove himself"
quote:i didn't say that. I said saban is the best, period. Yeah, it stings being second but, miles has been brilliant in 9 seasons.
-Saban's success only counts from this time frame till this one.
quote:not following this point
-The history of 2-3 quarterbacks that spent 2 years in our system and had successes in others picking up skills and offensive schemes get revised to only be credited to Miles for their spurt of success within a specific time frame.
quote:i've already responded to this multiple times. It's mistaken
-An overlooking of the long struggles we've had at QB over the last 5+ years--Mett being the biggest outlier here.
quote:this is frustrating. Auburn and georgia have had losing seasons. Auburn's coach got fired. Auburn's miraculous season does not show that their system is better than what miles is doing. Malzahn hasn't proven himself to be better than miles. Georgia doesn't win more than miles and they're in the east for crying out loud.
-A host of schools that get the job done passing slightly more (but not pass happy). Teams that include Bama, Auburn, Georgia, and other schools people would never consider anything but programs built for rushing the ball.
quote:what makes you think miles isn't striving for this? I've pointed out proof that he will throw when the situation is appropriate. You people act like miles is just incompetent and has no memory
A pretty much general coaching consensus from across the country, heard in almost every single analyst's reviews, preached in every level of the sport, and even heard from the lips of Miles, himself-- that striving for a balanced approach at offense is something desired.
quote:i haven't implied this. But, state didn't beat us because they had a superior game plan/play calls. They beat us because they have 18 returning starters and lsu is in transition. That will change next season. Miles has already proven himself against mullen. It's a similar situation with auburn. The rest miles has won.
It implies that Miles' choice of game plan for all the games thus far this season is sound and shouldn't be criticized based on the result of the Ole Miss game.
quote:this is what i mean by borrowing trouble. Negas can't enjoy wins because they see monsters lurking around every corner
I'm glad we beat Ole Miss, but I hope that we can get something going in the air to help us in the future.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 2:55 pm to AirborneJonnyA
quote:
Why? What do you want them to say? Well we started off sloppy and lost 2 games in horrible fashion then turned it around and now its gods offense? No one could really foresee this team turning it around and playing as hard as they do.
BTW .. we did not win because of the offense, we won because of the defense.
Our offense it is still lacking and has a lot to be desired.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:14 pm to tjtiger9
quote:
So if this is the philosophy, why do we continue to recruit 4 and 5 star QBs and WRs to not use to the best of their ability. If I were a 4 or 5 star athlete, I would really have to take into consideration how the current crop of athletes recruited the last couple of years are being "used".
I think that most of the top recruits want to compete for championships and have the opportunity to make a living for a few years in the NFL. If you have talent, they will find you. (see James Wright). When we have the right guys, we throw more (see Mett, JLee 2011, Jamarcus, Flynn) or you could say we are more "balanced". If we are better running the ball, we do that, because it gives us a better chance to win.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:18 pm to bfniii
You can win bro.
This "you have to be 100% with me on Miles being the best coach with the best philosophy or you are a 'nega'" is tired.
I like coach, enjoy us winning, want him to stay, like our style, but I am not drinking the cool aid that over the past 10 years Miles has been an excellent developer of QBs, and putting them always in the best scenario to succeed. And I still feel our inability to move the ball through the air is our biggest need for a better offense.
And as you said, "what makes you think Miles isn't striving for this"...well if he is striving at it and still only producing at this rate in that one specific area, that's a testament to his skills at it.
This "you have to be 100% with me on Miles being the best coach with the best philosophy or you are a 'nega'" is tired.
I like coach, enjoy us winning, want him to stay, like our style, but I am not drinking the cool aid that over the past 10 years Miles has been an excellent developer of QBs, and putting them always in the best scenario to succeed. And I still feel our inability to move the ball through the air is our biggest need for a better offense.
And as you said, "what makes you think Miles isn't striving for this"...well if he is striving at it and still only producing at this rate in that one specific area, that's a testament to his skills at it.
This post was edited on 10/28/14 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:39 pm to dreaux
quote:
In 2011 they crumbled in the fourth quarter like a cracker.
That's not a good example. 9-6 is crumbling like a cracker? And I don't even want to think about the rematch.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:56 pm to marklsu
quote:i never said this. i said the ideas that miles sucks at qb's or can't recruit qb's or doesn't want balance on offense are just ignorant. and they keep getting repeated by the lowest common denominator no matter how many times they're proven wrong.
excellent developer of QBs,
quote:he puts them in the best scenario for the TEAM to win which means they aren't always going to be 3k yard passers or that lsu isn't going to be in the top 50 in passing or that there isn't going to be "balance" on offense. his record is proof that his system works very, very well. the list of coaches in sec history that have been better over a 9 year period is very, very short and only 2 of them coached in this ultra competitive era.
best scenario to succeed.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 5:26 pm to bfniii
If our offense was as good as our d year in year out (last year being an exception), we would be even more dangerous and win even more SEC titles. Hard for some to believe that improving the offense would lead to even more wins and titles and it would be relatively easy to improve.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 5:30 pm to boxcar willie
As good as the running game is it would be even better if we changed our offense. I was on board and all about making some adjustments to it this season just to open things up a little. Get us a little more run room and give the QB better passing situations but have come to realize that it is to late to change this season. We have to ride the offense we have built and go as far as we possibly can with it. You can't just mid season change a offense you have spent all spring, fall camp and half the season developing. At this point it is what it is.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 5:34 pm to bfniii
quote:
which means they aren't always going to be 3k yard passers or that lsu isn't going to be in the top 50 in passing or that there isn't going to be "balance" on offense.
you don't think that perhaps the team could be even better if we had those things going for us? I would like to see this team on the level of the better teams in the SEC west and in contention for the 4 team playoff.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 7:07 pm to boxcar willie
quote:name the team that has a top 3 sec offense and a top 3 sec defense every season. what you're asking for sounds great but, why is it so hard for anyone to do this yearly? perhaps asking for it isn't the right question. perhaps what's more important is to have the highest average of offense, defense and special teams.
If our offense was as good as our d year in year out
quote:let's make sure we don't give miles credit for last season because it refutes the narrative
last year being an exception
I understand that miles is not perfect. but, he's second best in the toughest conference in it's most competitive era. unfortunately, that doesn't impress the negas because he doesn't win a certain kind of way. heck, fans were complaining about the play calling after the '03 ncg.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 7:32 pm to bfniii
quote:
I understand that miles is not perfect. but, he's second best in the toughest conference in it's most competitive era.
your preaching to the wrong person about that. He's the best at coaching in the conference and while he is good at recruiting, he lags far behind the little guy in that, the most important category.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:09 pm to boxcar willie
quote:more risk does not always equal more reward.
you don't think that perhaps the team could be even better if we had those things going for us?
so you're either implying that miles isn't striving for better offense and a better team or that he's just incapable and we need to replace the all time best lsu coach because he just doesn't win the right way.
this is just getting laughable.
miles can't recruit/evaluate good qb's - wrong
miles can't develop qb's - wrong
miles is too conservative and stubborn - 2013 says hello (along with 2011, 2007 and 2006)
miles is too predictable - how about the call on lsu's td against ole miss? the rebs didn't think that was predictable. anyway, who cares? if lsu can be successful, what difference does it make if the defense knows what's coming. you all act like miles and cam are intentionally trying to call plays in a predictable manner.
so now, we're just down to "miles is too slow to make changes". fine, prove it.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:35 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
As good as the running game is it would be even better if we changed our offense. I was on board and all about making some adjustments to it this season just to open things up a little. Get us a little more run room and give the QB better passing situations but have come to realize that it is to late to change this season. We have to ride the offense we have built and go as far as we possibly can with it. You can't just mid season change a offense you have spent all spring, fall camp and half the season developing. At this point it is what it is.
LSU needs the capability to strike quick when it has to, but I believe Les is playing the only type of offense his personnel can run this year. Harris isn't quite ready and Jennings has a low ceiling
Posted on 10/29/14 at 10:10 am to Tiger_n_ATL
TigerN atl
I dont think youre giving the HC enough credit. He has recruited every position including coaches superbly.
QB is the problem, for Miles. Its not like he's not turned over every rock looking for a good one to lead his terrific teams.
Mettenberger up in Kansas via Georgia neutral ground- Miles fought them all off and got this guy. I dont know how but he got him.
Went to Los Angeles, Rettig, Georgia again Jennings, even took a shot on a Gump/AU reject in Alabama with Rivers hoping to hit the lottery with a brother in NFL.
Then did something that will haunt Miles forever and that was take Patrick Miller's scholarship offer away and give it to Gummer Kiel up in Indiana. That right there should show anyone that Miles is willing to do almost anything for a decent QB and feels the need to do this for his teams.
But u dont hear a word about why the High School coaches arent developing QB's anymore in this state.
Harris gets developed and guess what, he's wearing P&G.
Big Time 4 and 5* QB's arent lining up at LSU's door. Why leave the state if u arent going to be the focal point of the offense?
Louisiana High School coaches should be taking a little flack for not developing any QB's anymore. Its not like we are lacking in available athletes, some of these guys could be big time QB's, but instead are playing other positions most notably WR.
I dont think youre giving the HC enough credit. He has recruited every position including coaches superbly.
QB is the problem, for Miles. Its not like he's not turned over every rock looking for a good one to lead his terrific teams.
Mettenberger up in Kansas via Georgia neutral ground- Miles fought them all off and got this guy. I dont know how but he got him.
Went to Los Angeles, Rettig, Georgia again Jennings, even took a shot on a Gump/AU reject in Alabama with Rivers hoping to hit the lottery with a brother in NFL.
Then did something that will haunt Miles forever and that was take Patrick Miller's scholarship offer away and give it to Gummer Kiel up in Indiana. That right there should show anyone that Miles is willing to do almost anything for a decent QB and feels the need to do this for his teams.
But u dont hear a word about why the High School coaches arent developing QB's anymore in this state.
Harris gets developed and guess what, he's wearing P&G.
Big Time 4 and 5* QB's arent lining up at LSU's door. Why leave the state if u arent going to be the focal point of the offense?
Louisiana High School coaches should be taking a little flack for not developing any QB's anymore. Its not like we are lacking in available athletes, some of these guys could be big time QB's, but instead are playing other positions most notably WR.
This post was edited on 10/29/14 at 10:53 am
Posted on 10/29/14 at 11:28 am to marklsu
quote:
but I am not drinking the cool aid that over the past 10 years Miles has been an excellent developer of QBs
I don't know bout the "excellent" part, but QBs have developed in the LSU program. I don't know what LSU football some have watched if they cant note the development of Mett from 2012 to 2013 or even the development of JL from 2008 to 2011. Going a tad further back, the RP from the beginning of his time here was not the RP who won the SECCG in 2007.
Are we QB U? Of course not, but in my mind we don't have these discussions if not for Miles kicking RP off the team in 08 and forcing 2 not yet ready young guys onto the field.
Posted on 10/29/14 at 11:51 am to bfniii
quote:The difference is, I'm happy to make my points and let them stand, you seem to have an agenda to try to make other people think the same way you think. You keep cutting/pasting and quoting until the thread becomes dizzying to look at. As if you are making a closing argument to a jury trying to refute every comment ever made about Les Miles.
i could say the same thing about the negas. they keep apeing the same points no matter how many times they're proven wrong.
This isn't a court trial that you can 'win'. It's opinion based, many people have their opinions about Miles, that's why he's the most talked about person on this board, and why thousands of threads have been started about him and continue to be started.
He's a controversial person, it's why the media sticks a microphone in his face all of the time. He's not controversial because he's a great coach and he has no faults, he's controversial because he's an odd duck, does things in an unconventional way, and makes lots of mistakes. He also wins a lot of football games doing that, that means people are going to criticize his methodology. It comes with the territory. Your quoting and cut/pasting is not going to change my mind any more than my opinions are going to change yours. It's a message board, not a sycophant's wet dream where we come to sing kumbayah and hold hands. People have opinions, they are going to state them. If you don't agree, How does it affect your life, why does it make you so miserable? Your posts and opinions do not bother me, they are yours and you are entitled to them.
Posted on 10/29/14 at 12:01 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
if we don't score 90 points a game and LSU fans will complain...fact
Posted on 10/29/14 at 12:18 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
He's a controversial person, it's why the media sticks a microphone in his face all of the time. He's not controversial because he's a great coach and he has no faults, he's controversial because he's an odd duck, does things in an unconventional way, and makes lots of mistakes
Miles??? He's probably one of the most laid back, non-jerk like, non-ate up with himself, highly successful HC's, and non-controversial guys in the college game.
102-26, being open to the media, and being a fun guy has more to do with the media seeking him out than anything else.
Posted on 10/29/14 at 12:24 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
I dont hate Les, he's a good guy. But that doesn't mean I agree with taking a bunch of elite 4 and 5 star athletes and using them to 'play down' with that philosophy so that we can brag about 'come from behind victories'.
Well said
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