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Started By
Message
Where's a good place in B.R. to find chef's knives?
Posted on 10/1/15 at 7:39 am
Posted on 10/1/15 at 7:39 am
I'm looking to add a good chopping knife and maybe a few other pieces to my collection.
13
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:30 am to Sayre
Amazon is a good place to look. I just ordered a chef's knife and paring knife from Global through Amazon. Also got an offset knife from F Dick. Those are some of the knives Anthony Bourdain recommends for high quality without breaking the bank. With Prime I got them a couple of days later.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 8:53 am to Sayre
Ducote's
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:09 am to Sayre
Cutco 
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:30 am to Sayre
Sam's. Buy the white handled ones. I love them.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:01 am to Sayre
depends on what you want.... i ordered from chefknivestogo.com bunch of real japanese stuff on there. most are hand made and many have the western style handles.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:10 am to Sayre
Sur La Tab and Williams Sonoma have decent selections of Wustoff, Shun and Henkels.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:22 am to Sayre
quote:
Sam's. Buy the white handled ones. I love them.
Costco has them too. They are legit, I think I paid $11 for two pack. I bought like 3-4 packs, you can never have too many cooking knives.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:27 am to Sayre
What are you looking for? And what's your budget?
And why do you want a "chopping knife?" Do you mean like a butcher's cleaver? Unless you're going to be doing a lot of butchering then I can't imagine you have a need for one.
Instead, I recommend getting a Chinese cleaver. It may look like a butcher knife, but it's not - it's a chef's knife. The blade is thin and sharp and perfect for transferring food from the cutting board to the wok/pan.
FWIW most good knives won't be available in retail stores. Don't pay to much attention to sharpness at first - you can get anything sharp. The difference between a good knife and a bad one is how sharp it remains after use. So pay attention to the steel and don't get anything below a 57 in Rockwell hardness for European knives. Thinner, Japanese knives should be closer to 60 or even a little higher.
And why do you want a "chopping knife?" Do you mean like a butcher's cleaver? Unless you're going to be doing a lot of butchering then I can't imagine you have a need for one.
Instead, I recommend getting a Chinese cleaver. It may look like a butcher knife, but it's not - it's a chef's knife. The blade is thin and sharp and perfect for transferring food from the cutting board to the wok/pan.
FWIW most good knives won't be available in retail stores. Don't pay to much attention to sharpness at first - you can get anything sharp. The difference between a good knife and a bad one is how sharp it remains after use. So pay attention to the steel and don't get anything below a 57 in Rockwell hardness for European knives. Thinner, Japanese knives should be closer to 60 or even a little higher.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 10:45 am to Sayre
Sur La Table (Perkins Rowe) is a great place to buy a knife. Frequent sales, plus the sales staff keeps carrots/celery on hand so you can "test cut" with any knife in stock. It is a great way to figure out if you like a certain style or handle or size without having to buy it & take it hope & return later. Even if you don't end up buying, it's a good research stop if you're unsure what handle will fit your hand.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 11:09 am to Sayre
Posted on 10/1/15 at 11:55 am to Sayre
I would check out Ducotes restaurants supply for the fun of it. I like that place. Prices are good.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 12:18 pm to Motorboat
quote:
Wustoff, Shun and Henkels
Those are shite. I guess you haven't met the new Tigerdroppings knife expert. He's looking to get in the custom market...
ETA:
quote:
Julienas
There he is.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 12:28 pm to KosmoCramer
Completely agree re: Victorinox chef's knives (though I can't stand their paring knives).
Unless you want to spend $120+ on a great knife (and also get a ceramic hone and maybe a leather strop) as well as learning to stone sharpen yourself (or find someone who does), then the best thing to do is get a Victorinox, a cheap honing steel to use before you cut (and frankly a coffee mug will do), and a $6 Accusharp to apply every few weeks. You're going to have a sharper knife than almost anyone you know.
Yes, the Accusharp will slowly eat your knife away. Who cares; get another Victorinox every couple of years.
Unless you want to spend $120+ on a great knife (and also get a ceramic hone and maybe a leather strop) as well as learning to stone sharpen yourself (or find someone who does), then the best thing to do is get a Victorinox, a cheap honing steel to use before you cut (and frankly a coffee mug will do), and a $6 Accusharp to apply every few weeks. You're going to have a sharper knife than almost anyone you know.
Yes, the Accusharp will slowly eat your knife away. Who cares; get another Victorinox every couple of years.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 12:34 pm to Julienas
What would you recommend as the next step up?
Posted on 10/1/15 at 12:36 pm to Julienas
Sorry I gave you a hard time. You seem pretty smart.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 3:02 pm to KosmoCramer
Tell me what you like in a knife and I'll give some direction.
People say that there are two types of chef's knives: Japanese and European. But this really isn't true. The Japanese don't really have anything in the way of a "chef's knife." Unlike here, they have a special knife for each action, whether it's chopping vegetables, filleting fish, slicing fish, carving chicken, or making noodles. The closest thing they have is a santoku, which is a sort of utility, "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of thing. That can pretty much do all the same things as European style chef's knife, but I don't think it's a very good substitute.
So I really thing there are only two "kinds" of chef's knives, and they're both European*** (with a huge caveat that I'm going to get to in a bit). The two kinds are: German and French (I'm talking about blade style, not actual country of origin). There is not better or worse, it's whatever you prefer (and let's be honest, the practical difference will not be huge).
The design you probably associate with a typical chef's knife today is the German design. They tend to be a little shorter and with a big, curved belly. The Victorinox is this style, as are the Wusthofs, Henckels, and even the off-brand $10 knife you'll find at Rouse'.
Believe it or not, however, the idea that the German shape is the "standard" shape is a fairly recent development; German brands like Henckel and Wusthof were very successful in the 1970s or so in promoting their brand (the idea that you care about your kitchen knife was a pretty novel concept at the time). Those two brands still are the most successful at marketing their products. At any rate, it's the reason why the German blade design is the "standard" in the public's consciousness.
The other blade design is the French one, which tends to be longer, thinner (height-wise, not width), with a much more gradual belly. It's still slightly curve, but compared to the German design it almost looks flat. This was the shape you'd think of as a "chef's knife" prior to the 1970's.
FWIW, I generally prefer the French design on blades, especially if they're longer than 8 inches. The slighter curve encourages better cutting technique ("push cutting" instead of the "rocking" that is almost too temping with the German knives.)
However, if you get a blade 8 inches or less, the German design may be a bit better because the more pronounced curve gives you more "knife." For example, you probably have at least 9 inches of knife edge on an 8-inch German knife, whereas you might have barely 8.5 inches of knife edge on a French design since it's more or less a straight line.
People say that there are two types of chef's knives: Japanese and European. But this really isn't true. The Japanese don't really have anything in the way of a "chef's knife." Unlike here, they have a special knife for each action, whether it's chopping vegetables, filleting fish, slicing fish, carving chicken, or making noodles. The closest thing they have is a santoku, which is a sort of utility, "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of thing. That can pretty much do all the same things as European style chef's knife, but I don't think it's a very good substitute.
So I really thing there are only two "kinds" of chef's knives, and they're both European*** (with a huge caveat that I'm going to get to in a bit). The two kinds are: German and French (I'm talking about blade style, not actual country of origin). There is not better or worse, it's whatever you prefer (and let's be honest, the practical difference will not be huge).
The design you probably associate with a typical chef's knife today is the German design. They tend to be a little shorter and with a big, curved belly. The Victorinox is this style, as are the Wusthofs, Henckels, and even the off-brand $10 knife you'll find at Rouse'.
Believe it or not, however, the idea that the German shape is the "standard" shape is a fairly recent development; German brands like Henckel and Wusthof were very successful in the 1970s or so in promoting their brand (the idea that you care about your kitchen knife was a pretty novel concept at the time). Those two brands still are the most successful at marketing their products. At any rate, it's the reason why the German blade design is the "standard" in the public's consciousness.
The other blade design is the French one, which tends to be longer, thinner (height-wise, not width), with a much more gradual belly. It's still slightly curve, but compared to the German design it almost looks flat. This was the shape you'd think of as a "chef's knife" prior to the 1970's.
FWIW, I generally prefer the French design on blades, especially if they're longer than 8 inches. The slighter curve encourages better cutting technique ("push cutting" instead of the "rocking" that is almost too temping with the German knives.)
However, if you get a blade 8 inches or less, the German design may be a bit better because the more pronounced curve gives you more "knife." For example, you probably have at least 9 inches of knife edge on an 8-inch German knife, whereas you might have barely 8.5 inches of knife edge on a French design since it's more or less a straight line.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 3:02 pm to Julienas
So now that that's out of the way, pick a style you want. If it's the German one you're after, then it will be very difficult to top any of Messermeister's Elite series (Oliva, San Moritz, or Meridian - the blade/quality is all the same, the only difference among them are the handle designs). Those are simply the best German style chef's knives I've come across.
If you're going to get a French knife, this is where my huge caveat from above comes in. Unfortunately, I've found that most of the knives coming out of Thiers (Sabatier, Nogent, etc...) are substandard. They're not even what they used to be (boy I'd love to get my hands on a vintage Sabatier). Fortunately, about 20 years ago as Japanese chefs began looking to the West for influence and cooking more non-traditionally Japanese food, knifemakers began to try to combine the best aspects of Japanese knives with the best aspects of Western knives to create a brand new knife called a "gyuto."
But don't worry about what the Japanese call it; let's call it what it is: a sharp arse French design. These knives are completely Western in essentially every way except their blades are thinner and usually made with much harder steel, though not as thin and hard as traditional Japanese knives - this is a good thing though. You don't want your knife to snap when you're deboning a chicken. A super thin and hard knife is perfect for slicing sushi, not so much when you're chopping everything from onions to butternut squash to duck.
So these "hybrid" knives (and to be honest they're about 90% Western, 10% Japanese) really present with a "best of both wolds" kind of knife. They can get razor sharp, but the steel is still soft enough so as to not worry (too much) about snapping when you put it through any tough tasks.
The best brand for these IMO is MAC. I have a 10 inch MAC Pro, and it's scary sharp even on a bad day. I will admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the grip (the handle is fine, but the lack of any bolster means my middle finger is digging into a right angle of hard steel - eventually I will get around to sanding that part down to round it out).
Also, while I trust that this thing is as durable as they say, I'm not going to lie: I'm pretty afraid of my $250 knife snapping. I'd never have that concern with a Messermeister (which admittedly will not be as sharp, but the softer, hardier steel is much more forgiving). So whenever I have a really tough job I just break out the ole Victorinox.
And with that said, I think everyone should have a Victorinox no matter what - I use my "backup" pretty often, especially since I don't care about maintaining its edge as much or it getting dull. I'll just run the Accusharp on it and get it right back up to speed.
Finally - resist the temptation to fall for a knife because it seems sharp. Sharpness is literally just the angle of the knife; it's not magic and has nothing to do with the metal. You can make a piece of tin as sharp - temporarily - as the highest quality knife made with VG-10 steel. Shoot, scalpels are sharper than anything in any of our kitchens, and those are just crappy steel (and discarded after use).
Also, almost all knives can and should be made sharper than how they come out the factory. I don't know why they don't sharpen them to their fullest extent, but any high quality Western knife should be sharpened down to a 15° angle (they're usually 20° or even 25°), and any high quality Japanese knife should be sharpened down to a 10° angle (with the hybrids maybe somewhere in between the two). Don't go lower, though, because the steel just won't be hard enough to prevent that tiny angle from bending all over the place.
When it comes to sharpening, I recommend either finding someone who knows what they're doing and uses whetstones or learning how to sharpen on whetstones yourself. I'm still working on this last part (another good use for my Victorinox... no way I'm going to start grinding my MAC knife on whetstones right now at my level). I'm trying to get good at putting a compound bevel on the knife (basically makes the entire knife width thinner, which is a good thing becase less resistance = less force applied = not slamming the edge on the cutting board as hard).
FINALY (if you're still with me), if you invest in a really good knife, you MUST get a ceramic hone (and try to use before each use - at least 3 times a week) and might as well add a leather strop as well. Always cut on a decent cutting board (doesn't have to be a $100 end grain or anything, but for the love of God don't chop on glass), and store your knives correctly (either in a wooden block (preferably that breathes through the other end) or a magnetic strip (and be sure to gently put them on there). What most people don't realize is that your knife dulls faster due to things other than chopping (banging into other knives, smacking into the counter, etc....).
And one last thought (I promise): if you're going to spend a lot of money on a knife, it might even be worth buying a custom knife. I recommend [link=(this guy)]https://www.weigeknives.com/[/link] in Austin - he could be selling his knives for twice as much, but that's not what he's going for. And I'm not saying get some hot rod conversation piece; I'm talking about getting the exact knife you want. Honestly if I had to do it again I'd spend a little more and go with someone like him instead of even my MAC. And while it seems a lot to pay for a knife, it's really not a lot in the grand scheme of things if you truly enjoy cooking and will be using it for the rest of your life. It will make your cooking experience much more enjoyable. People regularly spend a lot more money on golf clubs and no one bats an eye. It's one of the reasons I'd like to start custom making my own knives for sale: as more people begin to embrace cooking as a hobby I think they'll be looking for something better than their crappy Henckel's.
tl;dr: Messermeister (one of the Elite series) if you want German style, MAC if you want French style. But thin about a custom knife.
If you're going to get a French knife, this is where my huge caveat from above comes in. Unfortunately, I've found that most of the knives coming out of Thiers (Sabatier, Nogent, etc...) are substandard. They're not even what they used to be (boy I'd love to get my hands on a vintage Sabatier). Fortunately, about 20 years ago as Japanese chefs began looking to the West for influence and cooking more non-traditionally Japanese food, knifemakers began to try to combine the best aspects of Japanese knives with the best aspects of Western knives to create a brand new knife called a "gyuto."
But don't worry about what the Japanese call it; let's call it what it is: a sharp arse French design. These knives are completely Western in essentially every way except their blades are thinner and usually made with much harder steel, though not as thin and hard as traditional Japanese knives - this is a good thing though. You don't want your knife to snap when you're deboning a chicken. A super thin and hard knife is perfect for slicing sushi, not so much when you're chopping everything from onions to butternut squash to duck.
So these "hybrid" knives (and to be honest they're about 90% Western, 10% Japanese) really present with a "best of both wolds" kind of knife. They can get razor sharp, but the steel is still soft enough so as to not worry (too much) about snapping when you put it through any tough tasks.
The best brand for these IMO is MAC. I have a 10 inch MAC Pro, and it's scary sharp even on a bad day. I will admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the grip (the handle is fine, but the lack of any bolster means my middle finger is digging into a right angle of hard steel - eventually I will get around to sanding that part down to round it out).
Also, while I trust that this thing is as durable as they say, I'm not going to lie: I'm pretty afraid of my $250 knife snapping. I'd never have that concern with a Messermeister (which admittedly will not be as sharp, but the softer, hardier steel is much more forgiving). So whenever I have a really tough job I just break out the ole Victorinox.
And with that said, I think everyone should have a Victorinox no matter what - I use my "backup" pretty often, especially since I don't care about maintaining its edge as much or it getting dull. I'll just run the Accusharp on it and get it right back up to speed.
Finally - resist the temptation to fall for a knife because it seems sharp. Sharpness is literally just the angle of the knife; it's not magic and has nothing to do with the metal. You can make a piece of tin as sharp - temporarily - as the highest quality knife made with VG-10 steel. Shoot, scalpels are sharper than anything in any of our kitchens, and those are just crappy steel (and discarded after use).
Also, almost all knives can and should be made sharper than how they come out the factory. I don't know why they don't sharpen them to their fullest extent, but any high quality Western knife should be sharpened down to a 15° angle (they're usually 20° or even 25°), and any high quality Japanese knife should be sharpened down to a 10° angle (with the hybrids maybe somewhere in between the two). Don't go lower, though, because the steel just won't be hard enough to prevent that tiny angle from bending all over the place.
When it comes to sharpening, I recommend either finding someone who knows what they're doing and uses whetstones or learning how to sharpen on whetstones yourself. I'm still working on this last part (another good use for my Victorinox... no way I'm going to start grinding my MAC knife on whetstones right now at my level). I'm trying to get good at putting a compound bevel on the knife (basically makes the entire knife width thinner, which is a good thing becase less resistance = less force applied = not slamming the edge on the cutting board as hard).
FINALY (if you're still with me), if you invest in a really good knife, you MUST get a ceramic hone (and try to use before each use - at least 3 times a week) and might as well add a leather strop as well. Always cut on a decent cutting board (doesn't have to be a $100 end grain or anything, but for the love of God don't chop on glass), and store your knives correctly (either in a wooden block (preferably that breathes through the other end) or a magnetic strip (and be sure to gently put them on there). What most people don't realize is that your knife dulls faster due to things other than chopping (banging into other knives, smacking into the counter, etc....).
And one last thought (I promise): if you're going to spend a lot of money on a knife, it might even be worth buying a custom knife. I recommend [link=(this guy)]https://www.weigeknives.com/[/link] in Austin - he could be selling his knives for twice as much, but that's not what he's going for. And I'm not saying get some hot rod conversation piece; I'm talking about getting the exact knife you want. Honestly if I had to do it again I'd spend a little more and go with someone like him instead of even my MAC. And while it seems a lot to pay for a knife, it's really not a lot in the grand scheme of things if you truly enjoy cooking and will be using it for the rest of your life. It will make your cooking experience much more enjoyable. People regularly spend a lot more money on golf clubs and no one bats an eye. It's one of the reasons I'd like to start custom making my own knives for sale: as more people begin to embrace cooking as a hobby I think they'll be looking for something better than their crappy Henckel's.
tl;dr: Messermeister (one of the Elite series) if you want German style, MAC if you want French style. But thin about a custom knife.
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