TooncesAndOmar

Since you are at least attempting to provide some data and engage with the topic...

quote:

---

The ignorance of many of you is astounding. MN incident was carried out by a Tim Waltz staffer complete with "no kings" material in his car.

Gabby Giffords was shot the same day a Republican Judge, also in the crowd, was killed.

You typed out a lot of words just to prove how ignorant you are.

---

Missing my point completely. So having a homemade "no kings" flier in your car makes someone a DEM? Seems a pretty low standard. I am asking for OP and you now to tell me the facts that 100% make someone a DEM (or a REP)?

Political ideology is not so easily clear cut. My point is that violence and rhetoric come from both sides.

Boelter - MN assassin - was an evangelical Christian and "Trump supporter" LINK

Not a Walz staffer that I could find. Please provide evidence.

Routh - attempted Trump assassin - all over the place: donated to Gabbard, voted for Trump in 2016, voted Dem in 2024 LINK

Crooks - attempted Trump assassin - donated $15 dollars to Biden at 17 years old and registered REP at 18 LINK

People are highly complex. Motivations and ideology are much more confusing than media or politicians want it say that it is. I agree it is much simpler and easier to call me ignorant.

You still haven't provided any evidence to support your beliefs. Which is fine. You can have whatever belief that you want. It just makes it too difficult to have a conversation on it, if that is what you want to have. I don't want to do the heavy lifting here or provide counter examples that you won't engage with anyway.

I am not around internet news enough to know which websites are left leaning or right leaning, so just engage with the content, instead of immediately criticizing the source.

1 and 4. Are you saying no one on the right/Republican has ever celebrated the death or attack of a political opponent/someone on the left/DEM? Are you saying no one on the right has ever called for violence or spread violent rhetoric against DEMs or people on the left?

Don Jr. Halloween costume about Paul Pelosi attack LINK

Trump retweeting Biden hog tied (simplest link I could find LINK)

Plenty of pro Trump people calling to hang Mike Pence


2. Are you saying no one on the left/democrat has ever been assassinated by someone on the right/republican?

Gabby Giffords (attempted assassination)
Minnesota state legislators LINK

3. Are you saying that the Trump attempted assassin (x2) as well as the guy who put a hit out on Pam Bondi are DEMs?

Provide your evidence that these individuals are DEMs. I have read a lot this. They have no clear ideology that I can see. In fact, they show more right leaning support than left. I am not sure if donating 15 dollars to a dem organization makes you a dem anymore than the other guy voting for Trump in 2016 automatically makes him a REP.


5. I tried to find evidence of this, so please show me the evidence
quote:
People in the US Congress call for REPs to be killed.

I was not able to find a US Congressman named Jay Jones. I found a story about a former Virginia state congressman named Jay Jones say some pretty horrible things. Not ok at all and saying to shoot someone is no just easy mistake to make.

There is a lot more information I could easily find about violent rhetoric from the right, and there is just as much I could find about violent rhetoric from the left. Which supports my position that violent rhetoric is equivalent from either side. I am starting to think that you are just trolling me as you could find the same information that I do, yet you just choose not to provide it. Certainly there is more and more as you look at individual social media posts from just regular individuals. I don't want to put more effort into this than you are.

So if you want to engage more, provide specific links that show the Trump potential assassins were DEMs (which begs the question, how do you know if someone is a DEM?)

Also, what evidence would you need to see that could change your mind that REPs might be more violent than you believe currently?

My position is that I want people to just be honest about the facts and genuinely engage with them, regardless of your final conclusion. Social media echo chambers aren't great for that...

I just saw the Charlie Kirk Halloween costumes and that is so very disturbing. Kind of indescribable. And I really want to avoid "whataboutisms" from my end, but there is much we can already agree on without providing evidence. The left do call the right Nazi's. Some on the left have celebrated Charlie Kirk's assassination. This has been true from average Joe and Janes as well as some leaders higher up on the power ladder.

I go back to my framework questions in my previous post. Are we talking about Democrats or those on the radical left? Are we talking about Republicans or those on the radical right? How do we know? For example, just because you hate Donald Trump doesn't automatically mean you are on the left or a democrat. But probably no way to have this type of depth of discussion over text.

So how about some simpler personal questions. I want to make sure that I am clear on your beliefs here:

1. Are you saying no one on the right/Republican has ever celebrated the death or attack of a political opponent/someone on the left/DEM?

quote:

---

People on social media celebrate his death

---

2. Are you saying no one on the left/democrat has ever been assassinated by someone on the right/republican?

quote:

---

they’ve tried to assassinate Trump multiple times.

---

3. Are you saying that the Trump attempted assassin (x2) as well as the guy who put a hit out on Pam Bondi are DEMs?

quote:

---

they’ve tried to assassinate

---

and

quote:

---

Pam Bondi had a 45k hit on her and the perpetrator was released

---

4. Are you saying no one on the right has ever called for violence or spread violent rhetoric against DEMs or people on the left?

quote:

---

Social media has spread much of the DEMs violent rhetoric.

---

5. I tried to find evidence of this, so please show me the evidence

quote:

---

People in the US Congress call for REPs to be killed.

---

I think this is a good place to start. For a conversation this important, that also has a lot potential to get derailed, it is important to establish some baselines. I hope it is clear, I am not trying to just troll here. You asked the initial question and asked for thoughts on your position, so I am happy to engage.

Questions 1-4 above are simple Yes/No questions that we can easily support or disprove. For question 5, I was admittedly not aware of this, but definitely want to know which DEM congresspeople directly called for REPs to be killed. That in no way is ok.

quote:

---

1. Does Thrive BR Plan transfer EBR Parish Library taxes ONLY to BR for its benefit?

2. If yes, what are the Plan benefits for residents in all the other
municipalities?

---

Good question, and I am not sure anyone knows the specific answer. The cynic in me thinks that what is said where the money goes vs. actually where the money ends up going are two different things. The consolidated government model is really confusing.

This is from the BRLA.gov website (emphasis mine)

"Under the proposed plan, a portion of dedicated taxes from the East Baton Rouge Parish Library System, Mosquito Abatement and Rodent Control, and the Council on Aging will be re-dedicated into the general fund. Those re-dedications will result in a one-time infusion of $52.4 million that will be used to pay down debt, immediately putting the parish in a stronger financial position and reducing the burden on future budgets. In addition, a one-time payment of $6 million will be invested in parish-wide priorities such as critical infrastructure, drainage improvements, and public safety."

I struggle with this vote.

I and my kids use the library a lot and I think they do a great job. I really disagree with the Mayor just taking 50 million of their dollars - that were voted on by us - in exchange for even putting the 2025 millage on the ballot. Which makes me want to vote no because of strong arm tactics.

I can see, however, that the library millage needs to be adjusted down, But if this library millage doesn't pass, the library gets ZERO money and will run exclusively on its savings for at least a year until a new millage can get proposed and added to a vote next year. I don't like that either.

Thanks for the response.

Especially without knowing the job responsibilities, I definitely agree with you on mayor and COP.

I think I can justify the council salary since to do a good job you MUST spend considerable time reading a lot of documents, responding to emails, interacting with constituents and businesses, etc. Also, a larger salary means a larger group of people could actually do the job - not just those with already flexible and high paying jobs.

I didn't see any other post on this yet... let me know if I am mistaken.

Are you comfortable with this?
Mayor - $175,000 (matches Weston Broome's)
Councilmember - $44,000 (BR's is $12,000)
Chief of Police - $150,000

As I understand it, the Mayor in the proposed form on government is largely ceremonial. It is the council that has most of the power. St. George also does not - and there is no plan to - have a city police department.

Before the tax vote, some people voiced concern about approving a tax without knowing the details of the budget. A lot of discussion about this on the St. George Community Page between St. George supporters.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/StGeorgeCommunity

Article in The Advocate as well.

I know many disagreed with me on the tax vote, but my belief still is true: St. George has happened and we all want it to succeed. The city council discussion happens Monday or Tuesday.

What are your opinions on this? Have you emailed your council member?

(and to go ahead and get this out of the way... I have already gone ahead and fricked myself... so we can move on to discuss the issues in a rational, thoughtful, and civilized manner. What are we here on TD? Animals?!)

quote:

---

quote:
Going to have to step away from the computer for awhile

20 bucks says you don't see that guy again.

---

You can donate your 20 bucks to the City of St. George. This discussion will run its course in due time anyway.

quote:

---

If you ever wanted to expose yourself as a clandestine pro-BR/anti-SG operative, you just did it.

---

How so? I am attempting to just present facts. I am happy to hear from you where I am wrong on this. I definitely could be which is why I want the discussion.

Going to have to step away from the computer for awhile, but glad for the discussion. I gave my thoughts. Thank you for sharing yours.

quote:

---

Stg council can vote to do away with it when seated.

---

Absolutely agree with you! But that doesn't negate what I said. This is the only time we have agency. If this passes, we are dependent on the city council to create a new proposition.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

It has taken me awhile to listen and read enough about the tax to finally make a decision. I wanted to share my thoughts with anyone who is still undecided and open to another perspective. Unsurprisingly, this has become a very politically charged debate, when it is simply financial.

Tl;dr: vote no on the St. George tax tomorrow for the benefit of the long term success of the city

I live in St. George, I voted for St. George, and I want the city to excel. I am not a SWB plant (that is exactly what an SWB plant would say!). But voting no (for right now) is the correct decision tomorrow, and I encourage everyone else to vote the same.

All of these statements are easily researchable, but I am just trying to keep this simple and brief. Here is what I find most important:

1. The outcome of this vote does not impact the financial stability of St. George. By state law, St. George has until late in 2026 to get the city taxes finalized. There is no rush to get this done now. The “transfer/new tax” debate is irrelevant.

2. It doesn’t have to be 2%. The St. George budget needs a lot of work. Perhaps the tax number could be lower. Perhaps it needs to be higher. We don’t know yet. So let’s wait to find out.

3. For the most fiscally conservative among us, thanks to the state tax session, [if passed] all of our sales taxes are increasing (will be some of the highest in the country). St. George leaders say the current budget gives a surplus. Then keep our city taxes lower!

4. For the most pro-democracy among us, the current St. George leaders are all unelected. There is also no requirement or date set for St. George elections. So this is the only opportunity for your voice to be directly and democratically heard about a tax. And finally…

5. This tax is in perpetuity. Once passed, we never get a chance to vote on it again.

St. George is here to stay thus a “no” vote does not mean you are against St. George or that St. George is going to fail. A “no” vote just means no, for now, until we get some more necessary and important details sorted out first. There is plenty of blame to put on SWB and the City/Parish, but these concerns above are all specific to the St. George leadership to address.

Thoughts?