re: Best soccer nation?

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So I'd say the overall winner here is Spain

You aren't very smart then.


Judging by the vast majority on this board, I´d say he´s par for the course.

Most were adolescents in 2008 (second Euro championship for Spain). They promptly went out and won the 2010 WC, and the 2012 Euro.

I comprehend the thinking pattern (especially seeing somebody recently compare Uruguay to Nebraska NCAA football, and trash Italy as ancient has-beens).

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I agree that some of the logic of arguments is simply that people are really young and make "historical" arguments weighed far too heavily toward what they've seen in the last year.

The Italy = Nebraska (when they're coming off the Euro finals still have active players who actually won a WC) and Spain is in the "B" group of football powers (when they're freshly removed from the most dominant run in NT history) is a particularly salient example.




Regarding the OP:


Here's some numbers (not mine but I assume they are correct):

NT:

1. Brasil NT: 5 WC Titles, 7 finals / 5 COPA, 8 finals
2. Germany NT: 4 WC Titles, 8 finals / 3 EURO, 6 finals
3. Italy NT: 4 WC Titles, 6 finals / 1 EURO, 3 finals
4. Argentina: 2 WC Titles, 5 finals / 2 COPA, 4 finals
5. Spain NT: 1 WC title, 1 final / 3 EURO, 4 finals

England: 1 WC title, 1 final / 0 EURO, 0 finals



LEAGUE:
1. Spain La Liga: 15 CL / 25 Finals, 51 combined European titles (2 clubs with at least 5 CL finals)
2. Italy Serie A: 12 CL / 27 Finals, 48 combined European titles (3 clubs with at least 5 CL finals)
3. England EPL: 12 CL / 19 Finals, 39 combined European titles (2 clubs with at least 5 CL finals)

Bundesliga: 7 CL / 17 Finals, 29 combined European titles (1 club with at least 5 CL finals)
Argentina Primera: Copa Libertadores: 23 winners, 32 finals
Brazil Serie A Copa Libertadores: 17 winners, 32 finals



As this shows, a majority would say Italy since the question gives equal importance to NT and domestic league success. Italy is really the only one that's clearly in the top three or better in both historically.

Germany's NT record is a bit better than Italy's when you consider the Euro success and finals but that doesn't compensate for the very large gap in domestic league success.

In addition to actual trophies, Serie A was for many years the hands down best league in the world and consistently had 7 or 8 or more clubs attracting the best players in the world. Bundesliga arguably is having one of its best runs ever and Serie A its worst. Yet people can still make a convincing argument about whether Serie A is currently stronger/deeper, especially after European and head to head results this year.

I think it's mainly that Dortmund was quite good in Europe for two seasons that people rate the Bundesliga so highly in questions like this. Historically, though it's really just been Bayern in same tier along with Milan, Juve and Inter. Serie A has also had even more clubs with good European runs here and there like Dortmund had recently.

All that said, I would still answer Brazil and have added a consideration for top players since Brazilian players also figured so large in many of those CL titles the European clubs have won.

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Way to make my math look lame.

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Yours was better as it got right to the point. . . of course, both will be ignored in lieu of the absolutely subjective and unsupported opinions that make internet forums addictive.