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Message
1
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:32 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Thanks for contradicting yourself....
Thanks for acknowledging that you are too stupid to understand the difference between "finding something bad in every situation" and "expecting something bad in every situation" you ignoramus.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:33 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Thanks for acknowledging that you are too stupid to understand the difference between "finding something bad in every situation" and "expecting something bad in every situation" you ignoramus.
There is no difference, Barney Fife.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:34 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
^ This is ignorance spouted off by someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
Police ARE trained to expect the worst in every situation. You know why? Because it actually SAVES lives . This is why, for example, a cop SHOULD put anyone in handcuffs that they are talking to in relation to a potential crime, regardless of any other factor. THe handcuffs do NOT mean the person is guilty, they mean "this is for your safety and mine" and people have been told that over and over and over again but are stupid and insist on fighting with cops who are merely doing their jobs as they are trained to do.
And here is why the handcuffs are for YOUR safety as well as MINE. I HAVE had people who did absolutely nothing wrong run from me when I detain them for whatever reason. It happens, people panic and do something stupid. If you are handcuffed and sitting on the ground as good policy dictates, it's much harder for you to do something stupid, which keeps me safer and keeps you safer.
So it isn't that cops are trained to "find something bad in every situation" its that they are trained to "expect something bad in every situation" which is just good training.
This does not address Roger's point. At all. It wasn't about arrest/detention procedures
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 11:35 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:34 am to gthog61
quote:
The mere fact that these individual instances make news means there is no "epidemic" of cops killing unarmed blacks. There are a million cops - if there was an "epidemic" you would see monthly stats
Roughly 2M blacks arrested in this country each year. Roughly 500 shot and killed by police each year. There is your epidemic.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:35 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
A guy should be able to walk out on a thin ridge in Zion National Park without having a rock crumple beneath his feet and fall to his death = but it was a poor decision on his part to put himself in that situation. We should not bar access to scenic areas just because of the actions of a stupid person.
You just said we should assume cops are as dumb as rocks.
Aaaaaarrrrggghhh
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:36 am to MrCarton
quote:
This does not address Roger's point. At all. It wasn't about arrest/detention procedures
Right. It's about the "us vs them" mentality.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:37 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There is no difference, Barney Fife.
OMG you people are stupid.
CLEARLY you were suggesting that police are trained to go in and find a crime every time they had an interaction with someone . THat isn't true. THey are trained to expect the worst in terms of reaction from the people they are dealing with. It's nothing different than in the military. You plan for the worst, and hope for the best. That isn't the same thing is being out looking to frick over every person you meet and charge them with a crime regardless of circumstances.
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 11:39 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:37 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Roughly 2M blacks arrested in this country each year. Roughly 500 shot and killed by police each year. There is your epidemic.
It's not about how often it happens, to me at least. I recognize that this isn't an epidemic. It's about whether it is right or wrong.
BTW, I wouldn't doubt if more whites are killed by cope per capita than blacks. It's not a race issue to me at all.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:40 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no difference, Barney Fife.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMG you people are stupid.
Sadly, you perpetuate the negative cop stereotype perfectly.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:41 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
That isn't the same thing is being out looking to frick over every person you meet and charge them with a crime regardless of circumstances.
It is not up for debate whether or not the country is over criminalized. It is.
It is not up for debate that police departments have arrest and ticket quotas. We know they do.
It is not up for debate whether or not cops can use the insane number of unjustifiable laws and ordinances to fulfill the arrest and ticket quotas, or assert their "authority" over someone because they don't like them, or they gave the cop attitude. These things are established.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:44 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
I can see both sides to what you're saying and mr carton is saying and I feel both ways about the larger issues
But in this instance he shoved and ran. Whether he was complying or not he stopped but turned in a manner consistent with someone shooting behind them
Justifiable because most people would've done the same damn thing
There is a consistent theme with these publicized incidents (not here though) where I felt the cops escalated the situation such as Alton sterling, dude in New York and I think the cop in in MN was just poorly trained and then there's the woman who knocked on the window and got shot
Police need to also understand that sometimes when people approach them it's because they may be in danger or urgently need assistance
However in this one, the poor son of a bitch got himself killed
But in this instance he shoved and ran. Whether he was complying or not he stopped but turned in a manner consistent with someone shooting behind them
Justifiable because most people would've done the same damn thing
There is a consistent theme with these publicized incidents (not here though) where I felt the cops escalated the situation such as Alton sterling, dude in New York and I think the cop in in MN was just poorly trained and then there's the woman who knocked on the window and got shot
Police need to also understand that sometimes when people approach them it's because they may be in danger or urgently need assistance
However in this one, the poor son of a bitch got himself killed
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:45 am to DelU249
your twitter troll profile is hilarious, BTW 
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:46 am to MrCarton
quote:
It's not about how often it happens, to me at least. I recognize that this isn't an epidemic. It's about whether it is right or wrong.
Too many people it IS about how often it happens and they are claiming there is an epidemic.
I'm just saying to you as someone who has made plenty of arrests , several thousand in fact, that the best outcome is when NO shots are fired, and no one gets hurt, and 99.9% of cops feel the same way.
Obviously any group, including cops, is going to have a few assholes among them, this is simply a function of assholes, and just like no law would have stopped the a-hole in vegas, no law is likely to decrease the very small number of a-hole cops who just commit murder each year.
And if you look at each case individually and fairly you would have to conclude that cops are not getting away with murder in any great numbers either. I saw a study somehere a few months back that showed that 75% of officer involved shootings are cleared as good shoots without any question about whether the officer acted correctly or not. Then out of the remaining 25% that went to a DA and or to court roughly 90% of those eventually were cleared as no wrongdoing by the officer. I'll see if I can find that study.
But, the fact remains, we're talking about a very small minority of incidents, and so the talk of well, we need to retrain cops or we need to teach people how to react to cops better is just a waste of time. The overwhelming majority of civilians who come into contact with police act appropriately, even the ones who end up being arrested for whatever don't fight with police or what have you, AND the overwhelming majority of police act correctly in all respects as well.
None of the "solutions" offered in this thread will prevent the 2000 or so fatal shootings by police per year out of 8M arrests and tens of thousands of traffic stops made each year.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:47 am to MrCarton
Yeah that shite is woke
It is astonishing how occasionally I can kind of see their side like with the reporter/cam situation
It is astonishing how occasionally I can kind of see their side like with the reporter/cam situation
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:48 am to DelU249
COMPLY
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:49 am to DelU249
The shooting in MN is one where I feel that teaching kids in school this shite may have prevented it. I never reach where the officer can't see and one time I was an idiot and had my gun in the glove compartment with my insurance and I told him and he said it was fine. 2 cops so I asked if one could remove me while the other retrieves it
I like living more than anything else
I like living more than anything else
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:53 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Too many people it IS about how often it happens and they are claiming there is an epidemic.
I see a lot of marxists backing organizations that want this to be true. They love the unrest that this narrative creates. They, IMO, are controlling the narrative and making it difficult to solve the actual problem.
quote:
I'm just saying to you as someone who has made plenty of arrests , several thousand in fact, that the best outcome is when NO shots are fired, and no one gets hurt, and 99.9% of cops feel the same way.
That's fantastic. We agree on this.
quote:
And if you look at each case individually and fairly you would have to conclude that cops are not getting away with murder in any great numbers either. I saw a study somehere a few months back that showed that 75% of officer involved shootings are cleared as good shoots without any question about whether the officer acted correctly or not. Then out of the remaining 25% that went to a DA and or to court roughly 90% of those eventually were cleared as no wrongdoing by the officer. I'll see if I can find that study.
Ok, but this is where the whole root of the issue lies. Most everyone on my side challenges the definition of "good shoot". I want that definition to be the same for cops as it is for me. So I'm not going to find a lot of solace in this study.
quote:
But, the fact remains, we're talking about a very small minority of incidents, and so the talk of well, we need to retrain cops or we need to teach people how to react to cops better is just a waste of time. The overwhelming majority of civilians who come into contact with police act appropriately, even the ones who end up being arrested for whatever don't fight with police or what have you, AND the overwhelming majority of police act correctly in all respects as well.
Shootings, yes, I think we are talking about a much smaller number than some people like to admit. But this is well beyond just shooting incidents. Stop and frisk, "I smell pot, step out of the car", DUI checkpoints, resisting arrest as a sole charge, ticket quotas, arrest quotas... there is an enormous list of complaints that I and many others have with the state of law enforcement. It is currently anti-liberty, and has been for a long time. That needs to change.
I can't separate "good" cops from "bad" cops when looking at these issues. If you are a cop, and you enforce unjust laws, and participate in ticket and arrest quotas, you are doing things that go completely against my moral principles. What am I supposed to say to that?
quote:
None of the "solutions" offered in this thread will prevent the 2000 or so fatal shootings by police per year out of 8M arrests and tens of thousands of traffic stops made each year.
Oh, I'll make a solution right now. The best way to reduce shootings is to reduce the number of victimless criminal laws on the books and reduce the contact between armed police and civilians.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:55 am to DelU249
Exactly! The black community doesn't have a cop problem, they have a CULTURAL problem that they need to work on. For starters when you get pulled over by a Law Enforcement officer be compliant not aggressive. Being aggressive and difficult can and in most situations will cause the situation to go bad.
Stop teaching your children to RESIST and start teaching them to COMPLY.
Stop teaching your children to RESIST and start teaching them to COMPLY.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:55 am to DelU249
quote:
It is astonishing how occasionally I can kind of see their side like with the reporter/cam situation
I fricking hate Cam, but I'm totally on his side there. That chick was acting like a know-nothing clown and he called her on it. "Truck stick"? GTFOH
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