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re: Do you think the US will inevitably become more liberal after Trump

Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:01 pm to
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33036 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:01 pm to
I think people are starting to recognize progressive totalitarians for what they are:

Anti-free speech
Anti-free thought
Anti-any other world view but their own
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

The pendulum always swings back and forth pretty regularly, that won't really change significantly


Thats true. It should start to swing back to liberal in about 40 years..so theres that to look forward to.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79063 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

The U.S. has been becoming more liberal my entire life. It's the natural progression. The best Conservatives can hope for is to slow the progression.


No, it hasn't.

The Obama/Pelosi wing of the party is extremely illiberal. They support warrantless spying, droning civilians, corporate welfare, interjecting the government into your relationship with your doctor, forcing T shirt shops to print political messages they find offensive, forcing pharmacists to stock drugs they find objectionable, allowing men into women's locker rooms...

The Democrats are not liberals. They're fascists who support sexual licentiousness. I hope we see a return of liberals. The Truman/JFK brand, who believe in opportunity and personal freedom.
Posted by Duzz
Houston
Member since Feb 2008
10215 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:46 pm to
I think they will be liberal but they will have a lot more common sense and the Liberals we see now will be look upon with the same views as KKK or those that wanted Segregation back in the Jim Crow Era.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
23048 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

Well, actually, Millenials are more "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal",



bullshite!

Millennials are the ones crying single payer healthcare, $15 min wage, and college debt forgiveness/free college.

Those 3 ideas will cost jobs and explode the debt.
Posted by MastrShake
SoCal
Member since Nov 2008
7281 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 7:05 pm to
quote:

Do you think the US will inevitably become more liberal after Trump
yes, and it has nothing to do with Trump. it has to do with access to information.

people here arent gonna like this but ONE REASON conservatism thrived in the past was because people simply believed what they were told as children and there was no easy way to learn different points of view. today its much easier to question those things.

EXAMPLE: guess which group knows the most about religion?

the answer is atheists.

quote:

So why would an atheist know more about religion than a Christian?

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study...

"These are people who thought a lot about religion. They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education.




the more people know, the faster they are to reject what they were told as children and make up their own opinions. this is one reason the number of atheists and agnostics in well educated parts of the world is increasing so quickly.

60 percent of Berlin is now atheist.

over half of Canada now thinks religion does more harm than good.

the trend in Europe has them on pace to lose 100 million Christians between 2010 and 2050. by then roughly 25 percent will be atheist.

as for America, in 2004, 90 percent of U.S. adults said they believed in God. By 2007, the percentage dropped to 86 percent. This year, its down to 79 percent.

most polls say atheists only make up 3 to 11 percent of Americans, but theres reason to believe the real number is closer to 26 percent.

the defining trait of the mind of a conservative is a fear of change and the desire for things to stay the same.

quote:

"The common basis for all the various components of the conservative attitude syndrome is a generalized susceptibility to experiencing threat or anxiety in the face of uncertainty,” the British psychologist G.D. Wilson wrote ... In other words, an innate fear of uncertainty tends to correlate to people’s level of conservatism.


they focus on the negative...

quote:

...political conservatives have a “negativity bias,” meaning that they are physiologically more attuned to negative (threatening, disgusting) stimuli in their environments.


this literally gets hard-wired into the brain. physically.

one study...

quote:

Peering inside the brain with MRI scans, researchers at University College London found that self-described conservative students had a larger amygdala than liberals. The amygdala is an almond-shaped structure deep in the brain that is active during states of fear and anxiety. Liberals had more gray matter at least in the anterior cingulate cortex, a region of the brain that helps people cope with complexity.


another...

quote:

...what’s been found in several studies is that liberals tend to have a larger anterior cingulate gyrus. That is an area that is responsible for taking in new information and that impact of the new information on decision making or choices. Conservatives tended on the whole to have a larger right amygdala. Amygdala being a deeper brain structure that processes more emotional information—specifically fear-based information"


older people are already set in their ways, younger people arent. they have easy access to information and can learn new things. when they do, those old fears go away. they become their own person, and that person is usually liberal.
This post was edited on 6/17/17 at 8:01 pm
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

thrived in the past was because people simply believed what they were told as children and there was no easy way to learn different points of view.

You're projecting again. Objective and observable reality don't seem to be your friends.
Posted by MastrShake
SoCal
Member since Nov 2008
7281 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

Objective and observable reality don't seem to be your friends.

the half dozen peer-reviewed studies i just linked say otherwise.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

the half dozen peer-reviewed studies i just linked say otherwise.


Peer reviewed "studies" on predicting the future psychology of 320 million people?? Thats funny.
Posted by MastrShake
SoCal
Member since Nov 2008
7281 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 7:58 pm to
quote:

Peer reviewed "studies" on predicting the future psychology of 320 million people?? Thats funny.
a prediction (a word which i never said, btw) is made "on the basis of observation, experience, or scientific reason." in this case it's very well documented trends.

if i wrote...

1.

2.

3.

4.

based on that trend, what do you think the next number would be?

if you think it's impossible to know, then that says a great deal about you.

if you look at the 50 counties/parishes with the smallest percentage of people with 4-year college degrees, trump won 47 out of the 50, and did 30 percent better than Romney 4 years earlier.

among the 50 counties/parishes with the highest percentage of 4-year college graduates, he won 2 of the 50.

interpret that anyway you like.
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:00 pm to
quote:

he defining trait of the mind of a conservative is a fear of change and the desire for things to stay the same


Holy shite. There are people out there that actually believe this shite. I'm not saying that the study you cited is a crock of shite but it's a crock of shite.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79063 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:11 pm to
quote:

people here arent gonna like this but ONE REASON conservatism thrived in the past was because people simply believed what they were told as children and there was no easy way to learn different points of view. today its much easier to question those things.



Problem with that theory is progs blindly accept prog talking points. If the theory held water, progressive dogma would be held to critical analysis and rejected in the same manner as neocon dogma.

quote:

EXAMPLE: guess which group knows the most about religion?

the answer is atheists.



That's a Trivial Pursuit list of questions. Very weak. It's been posted here several times.

quote:

the more people know, the faster they are to reject what they were told as children and make up their own opinions.


Going back to my first point, then you should see a LOT more people who were raised atheist and became Christian. You should see a lot more real life Alex Keatons. Problem is that those individuals are more likely to blindly accept their upbringing, so it isn't a matter of being exposed to information.

quote:

the defining trait of the mind of a conservative is a fear of change and the desire for things to stay the same. 



You apparently haven't been watching US politics the past decade. The progressive wing of the Democrats have offered nonstop fearmongering and monsters under the bed. Progs are extremely fearful of change - just look at the reaction to Roby's bill to allow workers the right to take flex time, or the rabid opposition to any and all educational reforms, or the refusal by the left to consider any fixes to healthcare. Conservatives are increasingly seeking change.

quote:

...political conservatives have a “negativity bias,” meaning that they are physiologically more attuned to negative (threatening, disgusting) stimuli in their environments.


Yep, conservatives are demanding safe spaces and trigger warnings at college campuses, constantly finding new examples of "unfair" privileges that should be penalized, and trying to shut down the expression of dissenting views. Oh wait.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
52831 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:12 pm to
Melt
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79063 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:13 pm to
quote:

if you look at the 50 counties/parishes with the smallest percentage of people with 4-year college degrees, trump won 47 out of the 50, and did 30 percent better than Romney 4 years earlier.

among the 50 counties/parishes with the highest percentage of 4-year college graduates, he won 2 of the 50.

interpret that anyway you like.


Sounds to me like a very large number of Trumpkins are disgruntled Democrats.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
52831 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:15 pm to
quote:

Yep, conservatives are demanding safe spaces and trigger warnings at college campuses, constantly finding new examples of "unfair" privileges that should be penalized, and trying to shut down the expression of dissenting views. Oh wait.


I also heard those negative bias are leading conservatives to attempt mass assassinations of democratic lawmakers.......oh wait
Posted by HonoraryCoonass
Member since Jan 2005
19802 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

disgruntled Democrats.


In other words: homocidal.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79063 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:20 pm to
quote:

the half dozen peer-reviewed studies i just linked say otherwise.


I can cherry pick studies to make any point I want. Jonathan Haidt has published peer reviewed work showing that conservatives are more open minded and better able to understand opposing viewpoints.

If conservatives are fearful and liberals are rational, then we would have seen very different results in recent elections. All you have to do is look at the Democrats the last few cycles. It was always a monster under the bed. War on Women, throw granny off a cliff, muh Russians. Romney campaigned on fixing the economy. Trump, when he wasn't doing the Don Rickles act, campaigned on fixing well documented economic and foreign policy problems. So the best political consultants in the country disagree with those studies.
Posted by MastrShake
SoCal
Member since Nov 2008
7281 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

I'm not saying that the study you cited is a crock of shite but it's a crock of shite.
i linked 4 different studies, actually. they all concluded the same thing. and the reason they can all concluded the same thing is because we're talking about something physical. they can literally look directly at it.

much of the brain has been mapped at this point, we know what areas control what actions and emotions. the right amygdala processes fear, and that is more well developed in self-professed conservatives than it is in liberals.

self-professed liberals had more gray matter in the anterior cingulate cortex, which helps people process new information and cope with complexity.

again, this is something that doctors and scientists can literally see, it's part of the physical brain. its no different then looking at the sun and saying we have a sun. how do i know that we have a sun? because im looking right at it, right now, as I type this. im not guessing, its a fact.
This post was edited on 6/17/17 at 8:23 pm
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
18764 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:24 pm to
Nah.
The media and social media universe would like us to think 99% of the country hates Trump and conservatism but that's false.
They are trying to silence us and scare us.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
154556 posts
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:24 pm to
Let me make this easy for you. Liberals are creative but terrible at running shite.
This post was edited on 6/17/17 at 8:34 pm
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