re: Lease member shot a "big 9" yesterday

Calling him a dumbass may be harsh, but it's what I would be called by my friends if I shot a deer high at 150yds trying to drop him. Wasn't that he was shooting a 25-06, just illustrating that more would have been better here. I love my 270, but I wouldn't have held high at 150yds. (And my 300 gets a LOT more woods time these days.)

A high shoulder shot will drop them in their tracks sue to the spine dropping in the shoulder area. Give him a beer and some vagisil. He'll recover.

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Yep. Add the venerable .243 to that list.

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Guess I'm an anomaly. I've never used anything but a .243 and I'm about 11 for 12 on deer with one miss.

11 whole deer?! Well nevermind then.

Seriously, not arguing shot placement vs caliber. Just saying that when the deer of a lifetime is out there a larger caliber can be the difference between bringing him home or not. It really doesn't matter how many deer you've killed with your little gun at that point. Hunt with what you're comfortable with, but facts is facts.

Larger caliber does not necessarily equal more damage. What you have to remember is that if you've blown clean through, that bullet did NOT transfer all of it's energy to the target. If it had, it would have stopped. Not saying that's an ideal situation either, but I've seen more deer wounded with a 30-06 than anything else and every one of them was because he was shooting a 180 gr. bullet. It will knock a hole in them every time but the shock value is minimal and they get up and run off.

I shoot a 30-06 as well and I don't even have a clue how many deer I've killed with it. A serious shitload. But every one of them was with a 125 gr bullet. The difference in damage to the animal with that high velocity round transferring it's energy to the target faster and earlier in the wound channel is astonishing. That heavier bullet isn't even slowing down much on a lightweight animal like a whitetail. The faster and lighter bullet though... it's like blowing a cone through them.

I've had some stop directly under the skin on the other side with 85% bullet weight retained and they were dead in their tracks and that was with a bad hit that a heavier bullet wouldn't have killed it. One in particular I shot when I was a kid that hit the last rib on entry and was under the skin on the other side but when we opened him up, almost nothing in that cavity was in one piece. It looked like he'd had a grenade go off or ebola got him or something. Just soup. He dropped in his tracks to a shot that with most other rounds would have been a gutshot.

Normally though it will exit and the exit wound is enormous. I shot a doe through the heart one time that ran eighty yards and the exit hole was big enough you could put two fists side by side in it. Quartering shot btw. Normally it's about the size of one fist.

Point being, deer are tough as hell, but they aren't made out of kevlar. And the point of shooting them is to transfer as many foot lbs of energy to the target as you can. Those ft lbs on the ballistics table are simply a starting point. They aren't the whole equation.

But that said, hit the target correctly or don't pull the trigger.

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Larger caliber does not necessarily equal more damage. What you have to remember is that if you've blown clean through, that bullet did NOT transfer all of it's energy to the target. If it had, it would have stopped. Not saying that's an ideal situation either, but I've seen more deer wounded with a 30-06 than anything else and every one of them was because he was shooting a 180 gr. bullet. It will knock a hole in them every time but the shock value is minimal and they get up and run off.

I shoot a 30-06 as well and I don't even have a clue how many deer I've killed with it. A serious shitload. But every one of them was with a 125 gr bullet. The difference in damage to the animal with that high velocity round transferring it's energy to the target faster and earlier in the wound channel is astonishing. That heavier bullet isn't even slowing down much on a lightweight animal like a whitetail. The faster and lighter bullet though... it's like blowing a cone through them.

I've had some stop directly under the skin on the other side with 85% bullet weight retained and they were dead in their tracks and that was with a bad hit that a heavier bullet wouldn't have killed it. One in particular I shot when I was a kid that hit the last rib on entry and was under the skin on the other side but when we opened him up, almost nothing in that cavity was in one piece. It looked like he'd had a grenade go off or ebola got him or something. Just soup. He dropped in his tracks to a shot that with most other rounds would have been a gutshot.

Normally though it will exit and the exit wound is enormous. I shot a doe through the heart one time that ran eighty yards and the exit hole was big enough you could put two fists side by side in it. Quartering shot btw. Normally it's about the size of one fist.

Point being, deer are tough as hell, but they aren't made out of kevlar. And the point of shooting them is to transfer as many foot lbs of energy to the target as you can. Those ft lbs on the ballistics table are simply a starting point. They aren't the whole equation.

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This is full of what I call "camp fire logic". I like to base many of my conversations on the same thing.

It's like the old 30-06 vs .270 argument. Guys don't realize they are arguing over the same round in most instances. The only thing I will say is this. Think about your expended energy approach and wound channels. It is much more, IMHO, an argument of bullet construction in this instance. If what you are arguing is energy, I feel that is an antiquated argument. It's the old knock down power way of thinking and the OP is a good example of this. First, I have never shot a 125 30-06, but I have shot many 130 grain .270 rounds. It's the same animal. You're right, it's a deadly round.

So far good enough is good enough for me. Yes I'm mid twenties. Yes I should have got 4x4. Call me inexperienced or call me the guy that is soon to learn the hard way. I'm sure I'll be back soon saying should have listened to infidel. until then I'm too broke to step up to the big guns and trucks and making do with the "used" and " hand me downs "

270WSM FTW

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No doubt about it being about the bullet construction. If you are shooting a heavier bullet than necessary for whitetails you can get more damage on the target if it were say, frangible. Hell, if you can stop a fifty caliber in a deer, you're going to blow the shite out of that deer. But if you can't even deform it, you might as well be shooting a bow.

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We agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying about energy as it is the oldest argument in the woods. I also say that classic knock down power (energy) is a HUGE misconception in most hunting circles. "Knock down" is a product of wound channel/tissue and organ trauma. While the bullet expansion and weight retention is related to speed, it is more closely related to bullet construction regardless of weight. I NEVER want a bullet not to exit.

I am by no means an authority on the subject, but knowing what I've seen, what I know about anatomy, and what I know about physics (which isn't much ), this is what I've come up with.

I don't care if it exits if the deer dropped in it's tracks. The only times I ever trapped that bullet in the carcass was when that deer was dead before it hit the ground. Infidel you and I would have a blast arguing this subject over beer I suspect.

Wound channel is great, but I'm a big fan of massive hydrostatic shock. And that's what you get when you decelerate a high velocity bullet really fast. And that affects a much larger area than the wound channel.

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Infidel you and I would have a blast arguing this subject over beer I suspect.

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Yep!

I love these conversations.

LINK

fixed

My dad's thinking of getting this. You should like it.