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re: What is the greatest military vehicle of all time?

Posted on 6/19/25 at 9:41 pm to
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
69125 posts
Posted on 6/19/25 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

Whatever the Nazi's had, they were head and shoulders above the rest in everything.



Probably one of the biggest myths in modern military history. When the Germans invaded France in 1940, the French had better tanks and more of them. Where the Germans were better than everyone else - at least in the early going - was in the realm of combined arms doctrine. Their infantry, armor, and artillery units worked in close coordination with one another while commanders at the division level were given tremendous amounts of flexibility on the battlefield as the situation necessitated.

And when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, the T-34 and KV-1 were already better than anything the Germans had in their arsenal.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
71747 posts
Posted on 6/19/25 at 9:48 pm to
quote:

Probably one of the biggest myths in modern military history. When the Germans invaded France in 1940, the French had better tanks and more of them. Where the Germans were better than everyone else - at least in the early going - was in the realm of combined arms doctrine. Their infantry, armor, and artillery units worked in close coordination with one another while commanders at the division level were given tremendous amounts of flexibility on the battlefield as the situation necessitated.


One area in particular where the Germans were forward thinking was in communication. In a time where most tanks had no radios, the Germans put them in all their panzers. This allowed a far greater degree of command and control of German armored formations versus their opponents who relied on flags or arm signals.

I’m trying to remember which one it was, but in the early war period, one of the Allied tanks, I’m thinking French, had a wireless telegraph! So, they could communicate, but only in Morse Code. And that was only the command tank that had it.

And speaking of command tanks, this was another advantage the Germans had. The standard for radios in most armies at the time is that if a tank did have a radio, that was the commander’s tank. This made it easy for the Germans to target and knock out the command of enemy armored formations. All they had to do was look for the tank with an antenna.
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25342 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 12:34 am to
USS Monitor and USS Merrimack (CSS Virginia)

First iron clad ships in civil war.
Posted by WWII Collector
Member since Oct 2018
8530 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 1:29 am to
Posted by LanierSpots
Sarasota, Florida
Member since Sep 2010
68863 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 4:16 am to






Stopped a world war





This post was edited on 6/20/25 at 4:17 am
Posted by jake wade
North LA
Member since Oct 2007
2297 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 5:21 am to
The aircraft carrier.
Posted by Rip Torn
Member since Mar 2020
5505 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 5:23 am to
It’s almost like some of you didn’t read about WW2. The Germans were great at building armor but were horrible at logistics and still relied on horses for much of their supplies. They also wasted valuable resources on goofy super weapons like the V1 and V2 that accomplished nothing as well as the King Tiger that broke down often.
Posted by Rockbrc
Attic
Member since Nov 2015
9312 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 5:23 am to
The chariot
Posted by ElderTiger
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2010
7644 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 6:12 am to
A-10 Warthog
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
19797 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 7:10 am to
quote:

You think German planes were "head and shoulders" better than Allied planes?


The 190s were on par with everything, especially the 190Ds and up. The TA-152 was an absolute gem but not produced until end of war.

The 262 was far above any we had, yet it wasn't used correctly.

The BF109G-6 was the top of the line 109 model, even though they evolved.

Posted by PapaZulu
Davidson, NC
Member since May 2014
410 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 7:23 am to
quote:

Brrrrrrtttttttt




This is the only correct answer. Well done sir.
Posted by ATrillionaire
Houston
Member since Sep 2008
2140 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 7:37 am to
quote:

The 262 was far above any we had, yet it wasn't used correctly.

Disagree. Speed isn't everything. P-51 was superior in every other way.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
19797 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 7:46 am to
Absolutely. And the P-51 is by far my favorite all time plane. In props, yes. and if it could get in a turning dogfight with a 262, yes. The only times when 262s were shot down were landing patterns or caught going too slow. And agreed, it couldn't even begin to maneuver with a P-51.

However, had 262s been used correctly as an interceptor only against bomber formations and not Hitler's wish to make them more attack/air support, things would have been very, very dicey.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
69125 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 7:52 am to
quote:

However, had 262s been used correctly as an interceptor only against bomber formations and not Hitler's wish to make them more attack/air support, things would have been very, very dicey.



Doubtful. The British had their own jet fighter aircraft in service by 1944 - the Gloster Meteor. However, it was used mainly to chase down and destroy V1 buzz bombs as well as ground attack missions. They didn't want it flying combat missions over Germany to avoid one getting shot down and captured by the Germans. However, if the Me-262 had become a real problem for the Allies in the skies over Europe, I'm certain the British would have used the Meteor to counteract what the Germans were doing.

Had the war dragged on longer, the U.S. would have had time to introduce the P-80 Shooting Star to the Germans - a superior aircraft in just about all respects to the Me-262.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
19797 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 8:16 am to
quote:

Doubtful. The British had their own jet fighter aircraft in service by 1944 - the Gloster Meteor. However, it was used mainly to chase down and destroy V1 buzz bombs as well as ground attack missions. They didn't want it flying combat missions over Germany to avoid one getting shot down and captured by the Germans. However, if the Me-262 had become a real problem for the Allies in the skies over Europe, I'm certain the British would have used the Meteor to counteract what the Germans were doing.


But it didn't.

quote:

Had the war dragged on longer, the U.S. would have had time to introduce the P-80 Shooting Star to the Germans - a superior aircraft in just about all respects to the Me-262.


Incorrect. The only 'advantage' the P-80 had over the 262 was range. Maybe weaponry as in the amount of ammo due to smaller caliber guns. The 262 was faster and could out climb, and a higher mach number.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
69125 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 8:22 am to
quote:

But it didn't.



Because it didn't have to. The Allies had complete control of the skies over Germany and there was never a need for the Meteor to be pulled away from its primary mission.

quote:

The only 'advantage' the P-80 had over the 262 was range. Maybe weaponry as in the amount of ammo due to smaller caliber guns. The 262 was faster and could out climb, and a higher mach number.


Incorrect. While the Me-262 had a higher top end speed, it was negligible as both aircrafts reached speeds of well over 500 MPH. The P-80, however, had the advantage in acceleration and climb performance. It was also more maneuverable and had a higher rate of fire than the Me-262.
Posted by TigerHornII
Member since Feb 2021
1154 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 9:37 am to
quote:

Revisionist history

High profile made it a sitting duck

Weak gun made it ineffective against German tanks. I think they put a 75 on it in 44' so at least it had a chance to penetrate that Krupp steel.


Wrong on all counts.

It was about the same height as a Panzer Mk IV, by far the most common German tank, but narrower and more mobile and vastly more reliable,

In actual experience, encounters with Tigers and Panthers could be counted on one hand for most regimental size formations. In more than one of those documented instances, the Sherman's vastly superior rate of fire (up to 20 RPM with a veteran crew on the "weak" 75) would cause the German tankers to bail out after a few hits. Even if you don't penetrate, the noise, smoke, flash through ports, and damage to tracks, sights, and other bits is enough to convince most crews that getting out is better than staying put. Most Tigers and Panthers encountered on the Western Front were abandoned due to mechanical failure.

Watch fewer movies, read more history.
Posted by TigerHornII
Member since Feb 2021
1154 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 9:39 am to
quote:

Wh. The T-34 had a lot of drawbacks. He’s, its armor was good, it was relatively reliable, and had good cross country performance. But its fire control system was rudimentary at best. Once the Wehrmacht introduced the PzKpfw IV Ausf G with the long barrel 7.5 cm gun, the T-34 was at a disadvantage.


That leaves out that T-34 crew survivability rates were among the worst in the war, something like 17-18% after a penetrating hit.
Posted by TigerHornII
Member since Feb 2021
1154 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 9:42 am to
quote:

I think when it came to materials request in WWII, the Russians only wanted our trucks, not our tanks.


They did want our trucks and half tracks. Around 2/3rds of Soviet wheeled vehicles were US by EOW.

WRT to tanks, the elite Guards unit that led the advance into Berlin did so in Sherman E-8's. They liked it just fine.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
87634 posts
Posted on 6/20/25 at 10:21 am to
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