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Message
re: So who's lying now?
Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:50 pm to gonads&strife
Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:50 pm to gonads&strife
quote:
If you acknowledge they did wrong and remain a fan that shouldn't be a problem. The problem comes in when "support" becomes denial of the wrong doing and excusing it away with fantastical bullshite.
I agree, and i believe that people loooove a conspiracy theory,..but keep in mind kickoff is a long way away and people have to entertain themselves.
2
Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:55 pm to SEClint
quote:
and people have to entertain themselves
Ain't that the truth.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:56 pm to SEClint
If the New York Jets would have been busted, do you really think that the penalties would have been this severe?
You're kidding yourself if you say yes.
And if you want to be technical, Rex Ryan's dad is the one who basically started all this, and the reason why Dave Duerson and Andre Waters are dead.
Yes, I said that.
And we already know that the New England Patriots can cheat, and nothing was done about it.
You're kidding yourself if you say yes.
And if you want to be technical, Rex Ryan's dad is the one who basically started all this, and the reason why Dave Duerson and Andre Waters are dead.
Yes, I said that.
And we already know that the New England Patriots can cheat, and nothing was done about it.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:57 pm to goatmilker
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:00 pm to lsutigers1992
whats done is done. Its out of our hands..i dont like it at all and i do think it is quite unfair that no one was truly hurt as a result of any bounty. I think we will overcome, i just have a feeling like nothing is going to stop us. Im confident in the Saints..
i got that 2009 feeling man, Superbowl in the dome..just feel like it's on.
i got that 2009 feeling man, Superbowl in the dome..just feel like it's on.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:04 pm to gonads&strife
I understand SP being suspended for lying to the boss. I understand it completely. I think it was a bit much but so be it. Nothing we as fans can do about it. No matter how pissed we get.
It's like if your kid kicked someone in the knee and they in return knock the hell out of your kid. Your first instinct isn't to knock the hell out of your kid. It's most likely to smack the person that hit your kid. Then punish your child later on your terms.
Not to sound like a crybaby as someone mentioned before, but, what annoys me is that the NFL "KNOWS" other teams did and possibly still do this. I'm not saying suspend their coach etc. But at least acknowledge that the Saints aren't alone in this.
Would another coach lie about it? Who knows. They didn't ask another coach to my knowledge. And if they did they must have admitted it and handled it in-house.
People are just emotional about their team. And I can understand that. It's human nature to try and protect what you care about. Maybe it's more that than ignorance as some are saying.
It's like if your kid kicked someone in the knee and they in return knock the hell out of your kid. Your first instinct isn't to knock the hell out of your kid. It's most likely to smack the person that hit your kid. Then punish your child later on your terms.
Not to sound like a crybaby as someone mentioned before, but, what annoys me is that the NFL "KNOWS" other teams did and possibly still do this. I'm not saying suspend their coach etc. But at least acknowledge that the Saints aren't alone in this.
Would another coach lie about it? Who knows. They didn't ask another coach to my knowledge. And if they did they must have admitted it and handled it in-house.
People are just emotional about their team. And I can understand that. It's human nature to try and protect what you care about. Maybe it's more that than ignorance as some are saying.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:04 pm to lsutigers1992
quote:
If the New York Jets would have been busted, do you really think that the penalties would have been this severe?
You're kidding yourself if you say yes.
Baseless conjecture...in the current injury-head trauma awareness climate if the Jets had been warned, lied and then lied again, odds are they'd be getting their nuts crushed.
quote:
And if you want to be technical, Rex Ryan's dad is the one who basically started all this, and the reason why Dave Duerson and Andre Waters are dead.
Yes, I said that.
Yeah, in the past and a key reason why bounties are illegal now and the Saints are getting hammered - a message is being sent. Sucks for the Saints but they shouldn't have done what they done.
quote:
And we already know that the New England Patriots can cheat, and nothing was done about it.
Didn't they lose a draft pick and the evil guy get fined around $500k? Am I missing something?
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:07 pm to gonads&strife
quote:
Didn't they lose a draft pick and the evil guy get fined around $500k? Am I missing something?
I think you get his point.
draft pick/fine =/= Saints penalty, by a long shot.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:12 pm to Hoodoo Man
No, I don't get his point. They were fined and penalized for their crime - cheating. The Saints were fined and penalized for their crime - targeting players with bounties and then lying repeatedly to cover it up.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:15 pm to gonads&strife
I'm not making a judgment on that.
To me, it sounded like you were talking semantics.
So, I clarified his point.
You should go find that silly "post all bounty violations here" thread.
To me, it sounded like you were talking semantics.
So, I clarified his point.
You should go find that silly "post all bounty violations here" thread.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:24 pm to gonads&strife
quote:
Or allow teams to prepare accordingly....knowing QBA is out and your facing QBB is pretty important info.
Really, what advantage is that if everyone knows nothing like they do in college football. You have to adapt when playing a sport. It is for gambling purposes, which they lied and said it wasn't, or it is to point out minor issues for the opposing team - pick one!
quote:
No it's not - tackles and sacks are a part of the game - incentivizing a player to make more of them does not equal a specific bounty on a player where the goal is not just to obtain a sack, but to knock said specific player out of the game....If an NFL contract contained that type of incentive it would be illegal.
Really, gotta love semantics. It is the same thing - denying it is playing into the B.S. game they are playing to avoid lawsuits. It is easier and would be better if they came up with salaries based on their position and experience and age and injuries and their contribution level. If they need incentives, then limit it to making playoff games and how far they go in the playoffs. Besides, the monies involved were not even close to callin incentives! So that's a joke!
I agree SP needs to be punished. Money is always a good thing - make him contribute a year salary to head trauma research. Suspend him for a few games, but not a year. There is not precedent and it is spiteful. Yes he lied, yes the commisioner got his feelings hurt. But guess what, the owners are lying to him if he thinks he can do this to everyone that has been or is doing the incentives. 1st time offense is not the time to drop the hammer, and he didn't by warning them. However, 2nd time is not the time to over react either.
ETA
This post was edited on 3/26/12 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 3/26/12 at 5:31 pm to lsutigers1992
quote:
If the New York Jets would have been busted, do you really think that the penalties would have been this severe?
You're kidding yourself if you say yes.
And if you want to be technical, Rex Ryan's dad is the one who basically started all this, and the reason why Dave Duerson and Andre Waters are dead.
Yes, I said that.
And we already know that the New England Patriots can cheat, and nothing was done about it.
Tin Foil, lot's and lots of tin foil...
Posted on 3/26/12 at 6:03 pm to joe4funn69
quote:
It is for gambling purposes, which they lied and said it wasn't
Link?
quote:
Really, gotta love semantics.
You're the only one playing semantics in trying to equate a contract that rewards a player for tackles and sacks to a bounty system where a specific player is targeted to be knocked out of the game. If you can't see the difference you lack a fully functioning brain or you are the run of the mill fan blinded by allegiance to a sports corporation. You pick.
quote:
I agree SP needs to be punished. Money is always a good thing - make him contribute a year salary to head trauma research. Suspend him for a few games, but not a year. There is not precedent and it is spiteful. Yes he lied, yes the commisioner got his feelings hurt. But guess what, the owners are lying to him if he thinks he can do this to everyone that has been or is doing the incentives. 1st time offense is not the time to drop the hammer, and he didn't by warning them. However, 2nd time is not the time to over react either.
So when do you drop the hammer? The third time you're ignored and lied to? Of course there isn't any real precedent, but it is clearly legal and guess what - now we have some fricking precedent because Payton and Loomis ignored the rules. It sucks for the Saints, but if you want to be angry at someone, Goodell isn't your guy - it's the two liars that didn't follow the rules and/or reign in Williams.
And this isn't spiteful, this is about making precedent and sending a message. This is what happens in the NFL if you run a bounty system. Got it?
Posted on 3/26/12 at 6:26 pm to gonads&strife
quote:
No that's not all that's being said. They are excusing it with the "everyone else was doing it", conspiracy BS, wild arguments that equate bounties to incentive laden player contracts
The "everyone else was doing it" defense is not an excuse. If you get caught u do the time. Its just deductive reasoning for the notion that it's way too harsh. And it's not conspiracy bs that everyone else was doing it. Slight Exaggeration, yes. But it's a fact that there are about 6 other teams known to have had bounty systems and numerous current and former players who say it is/was commonplace.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 8:16 pm to motorbreath
quote:
The "everyone else was doing it" defense is not an excuse. If you get caught u do the time. Its just deductive reasoning for the notion that it's way too harsh. And it's not conspiracy bs that everyone else was doing it. Slight Exaggeration, yes. But it's a fact that there are about 6 other teams known to have had bounty systems and numerous current and former players who say it is/was commonplace.
and Goodell is NOT going after them.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 8:21 pm to gonads&strife
quote:
Didn't they lose a draft pick and the evil guy get fined around $500k? Am I missing something?
...and Belichick lied and tried to cover it up!
Posted on 3/26/12 at 8:23 pm to s_i5
quote:
...and Belichick lied and tried to cover it up!
No, I'm pretty sure only SP did that.
Posted on 3/26/12 at 8:47 pm to motorbreath
quote:
Its just deductive reasoning for the notion that it's way too harsh.
Why don't you lay out how you "deduced" that the penalty is too harsh - that should be funny.
quote:
But it's a fact that there are about 6 other teams known to have had bounty systems and numerous current and former players who say it is/was commonplace.
I'd really like a link to that. Thanks.
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