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re: Should we have gotten Addai instead of Bush in the 06 Draft?
Posted on 8/12/08 at 1:06 am to lpd1975
Posted on 8/12/08 at 1:06 am to lpd1975
quote:
Reggie Bush and his Heisman dissagree with that. MJD was 1st team All-American over Reggie but let's not go off into revisionist history here. Reggie was the most hyped back for a reason.
????
I did not know that Jones-Drew beat out Bush for All-American, and I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure Bush was a consensus first team All-American. Maybe Bush got it for RB, while Jones-Drew beat Bush out as all-purpose All-American... or something like that.
Regardless, you do realize that the USC team Bush played for shattered the all-time record for consective weeks ranked at #1 in the AP Poll... that the USC team Bush played for was one of the most stacked teams in college football history, right?
Let's look at the supporting cast Bush had during his time at USC:
Just looking at the 2006 Draft ALONE, look how the Trojans did:
QB Matt Leinart (first round, #10 overall). Leinart finished 6th in the 2003 Heisman vote as a soph (behind QB Jason White and QB Eli Manning), finished 1st in the 2004 Heisman vote as a junior, and finished 3rd in the 2005 Heisman vote as a senior (behind QB Vince Young).
RB Reggie Bush (first round, #2 overall).
RB LenDale White (2nd round, #45 overall), led USC in rushing during two of his years there, All-American, finished as USC's all time rushing touchdowns leader with 52.
OL Winston Justice (2nd round, #39 overall)
OL Taitusi Lutui (2nd round, #41 overall)
OL Fred Matua (7th round, #217 overall).
(Note that OL Ryan Kalil was 2nd Round, #59 overall in the 2007 draft).
FB David Kirtman (5th round, #163 overall).
TE Dominique Byrd (3rd round, 93rd overall).
See what a Dream Team that Bush was a part of, just looking at fellow Trojans taken in the 2006 Draft????
See how he ran behind an OL that turned out 4 NFL draft picks, three of which were in the 2nd round?
Now consider what Jones-Drew did at UCLA against the same Pac-10 conference that Bush played against, without the insane supporting cast that Bush had. Go to youtube, look at the videos of Jones-Drew at UCLA, and tell me that guy wasn't at least just as exciting as Bush was at USC, all without the luxury of the supporting cast Bush had at USC.
This post was edited on 8/12/08 at 1:13 am
1
Posted on 8/12/08 at 1:26 am to Fighting Tigers
if you give bush the colts offensive line, i guarantee his numbers are way better than they are with the saints. The saints oline have been a disappointment runblocking
Posted on 8/12/08 at 1:39 am to PokerPlayingTiger
quote:
That is just moronic to the nth power. Addai was taken with the 30th pick and that was around what his value was from predraft scouting by just about every team. Taking him with the 2nd pick would have justified sending you to the crazy farm. I see your point that Addai has played much better than Bush. No one can argue that but to say he should have been selected with the 2nd pick is nuts. If you are going to use that crazy logic then Addai is not the guy we should have selected. The guy we should have taken is Antonio Cromartie BY FAR.
This has nothing to do with taking Addai as our #2 pick, this discussion is about whether or not we should we have traded down to get someone other than Bush (like Addai or Jones-Drew)... trading down like that would have given us compensation (like an extra pick(s) where might have gotten someone like Cromartie in addition to Addai or Jones-Drew). A poster above even stated that he wished by trading down our #2 pick, we could have gotten both Addai and Cromartie in the 2006 NFL.
As for how you think Cromartie "BY FAR" would have been a better #2 pick than Bush. I don't know about that, especially since Cromatrie sat out his last season before the draft because of a torn ACL.
Also, as one of the above posters in this thread pointed out:
It is very possible we couldn't have traded our chance at getting Bush with anyone... that nobody was willing to take a chance on him (if somebody was, don't you think the Texans would have taken advantage of that?). But I don't know how true all that is or not.
For example, compare two quotes from the analysits at the time we took Bush:
1) "Hats off to the Saints for capitalizing on this opportunity rather than running for cover by trading out of the No. 2 spot. Bush does not fit a need with running back Deuce McAllister already in the stable"
2) "The Saints certainly have greater needs than running back, and trading down appeared to be the right move. However, it would have been the right move only if they could have gotten good value for Bush, who has the burst to consistently turn the corner, an impressive second gear and a freakish ability to make people miss in the open field. With no one ready to break the bank in a trade, the Saints had no choice but to draft Bush."
And since I'm throwing out quotes of the analysits at the time we drafted Bush, here's one that turned out to be somewhat prophetic:
"Negatives: Will flag the ball in traffic to keep his balance and loses the ball trying to be overly creative. Is not used heavily between the tackles — although he did not have to in a backfield with LenDale White — and is not a bellcow back. Production was aided by an outstanding offensive line that opened wide running lanes most backs could fit through. Showed he could be held in check vs. Texas in the National Championship game. Does not have great size and has not been asked to block a lot. Not overly powerful. Was not the primary option in short-yardage situations and is not going to bull his way through the line and surge through big-bodied tacklers. Has been best with a big, bruising complement who could wear down defenses, carry part of the workload and accentuate his strengths. Durability needs to be considered without great size"
This post was edited on 8/12/08 at 1:55 am
Posted on 8/12/08 at 2:24 am to jlsutiger
quote:
Lets put it this way, if you could trade Reggie before this season for either Addai, Jones-Drew, or Maroney would you do it. If you say "no", then you are not a saints fan, b/c any of those trades would make the saints better.
While I don't agree with you that Bush is better than Addai or Jones-Drew just because Bush is playing for the Saints while neither Addai or Jones-Drew are playing for the Saints, I do have faith in Payton and Loomis, and I believe they are trying to build the Saints into the greatest team in the NFL, and that they believe that having Bush will be a good pawn in the chess game of achieving that goal, regardless of whether he ever makes the Pro Bowl or not.
This post was edited on 8/12/08 at 2:26 am
Posted on 8/12/08 at 10:01 am to Fighting Tigers
aaahhhhhhh................YES
Posted on 8/12/08 at 10:55 am to Fighting Tigers
quote:
hile I don't agree with you that Bush is better than Addai or Jones-Drew just because Bush is playing for the Saints while neither Addai or Jones-Drew are playing for the Saints
thats not what I said at all. I'm saying Bush is NOT as good as Addai or Jones-Drew, regardless of who they play for.
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:24 am to jlsutiger
quote:as being an every down back, banging it out between the tackles, no he's not as good. But we all know that's not his role on the saints and he brings WAY more diversity to a team that already has a featured back. I'll still take Reggie over both of those guys.
I'm saying Bush is NOT as good as Addai or Jones-Drew
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:30 am to Edible Dirt
quote:Yeah, a featured back coming off of 2 knee surgeries. Who knows if he'll really be back 100% and even if he is this year, how much longer can he play effectively? Diversity is fine, hell Kevin Faulk brings diversity to the Patriots. He just wasn't the overhyped 2nd pick in the draft, next Gayle Sayers and doesn't make 20 million a year. Reggie will be a 3rd down back in the league for a long time but never a true running back.
WAY more diversity to a team that already has a featured back
quote:
I'll still take Reggie over both of those guys
W/ Deuce's injury, I'd say the saints could use a real running back who can actually get tough yards a lot more than a 3rd down back. The saints would be a better team w/ either of those backs over Reggie. Its the truth.
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:36 am to jlsutiger
quote:Okay, that makes sense. So why get rid of Reggie. Shouldn't this be about replacing Deuce, the bruiser??
W/ Deuce's injury, I'd say the saints could use a real running back who can actually get tough yards a lot more than a 3rd down back. The saints would be a better team w/ either of those backs over Reggie. Its the truth.
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:44 am to jlsutiger
quote:
Its the truth.
jlsutiger = poo
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:51 am to whodatfan
Reggie Bush would make ANY offense in the NFL a better offense. Simple.
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:39 pm to Fighting Tigers
quote:
This has nothing to do with taking Addai as our #2 pick, this discussion is about whether or not we should we have traded down to get someone other than Bush (like Addai or Jones-Drew)... trading down like that would have given us compensation (like an extra pick(s) where might have gotten someone like Cromartie in addition to Addai or Jones-Drew). A poster above even stated that he wished by trading down our #2 pick, we could have gotten both Addai and Cromartie in the 2006 NFL.
My bad, I thought you were trying to say we should have drafted Addai #2 instead of Bush. That would have been moronic. Trading down would not have been a bad play but as has already been noted the candidate list of teams wanting to move up to #2 was very short if it even existed.
quote:
As for how you think Cromartie "BY FAR" would have been a better #2 pick than Bush. I don't know about that, especially since Cromatrie sat out his last season before the draft because of a torn ACL.
I was making that point in using hindsight only. No way would I have drafted Cromartie #2. Again, I missed your point about trading down.
Posted on 8/12/08 at 11:51 pm to jlsutiger
quote:
thats not what I said at all. I'm saying Bush is NOT as good as Addai or Jones-Drew, regardless of who they play for.
Alright, man. Do Addai and MJD have MUCH better stats than Bush? Yes they do. Are they better in between the tackles as a RB? Yes they are.
But one thing that you can't measure by stats is the matchup problems that Bush creates for other defenses. Defensive coordinators have to account for him on every play to the tune of changing their defensive assignments because of him. I guarantee that is not the case for Addai. Addai happened to land in a dream situation on an already established team with a high powered offense (quite similar to LSU at that). I think it is much more than coincidence that the Saints offense has turned into a juggernaut since Bush joined the team. Yes, we also got Brees and Colston and others at the same time but they are ALL an integral part of the success. And I am pretty damn sure that the matchup problems that Bush creates allow all other players on offense to excel to a higher degree.
So no, he may not have the stats of those other guys but I also don't think you should diminish what he brings to the table even if it doesn't always translate to stats or fantasy glory.
Posted on 8/13/08 at 1:40 am to PokerPlayingTiger
Addai is also one of the best blocking rb's in the NFL.
Posted on 8/13/08 at 1:32 pm to SaintEB
Shouldn't we have taken Tom Brady is his draft, or maybe TO in his, or maybe Asante Samuel in his. Give me a f'in break.
Posted on 8/15/08 at 3:49 am to PokerPlayingTiger
quote:
But one thing that you can't measure by stats is the matchup problems that Bush creates for other defenses. Defensive coordinators have to account for him on every play to the tune of changing their defensive assignments because of him. ... I think it is much more than coincidence that the Saints offense has turned into a juggernaut since Bush joined the team. Yes, we also got Brees and Colston and others at the same time but they are ALL an integral part of the success. And I am pretty damn sure that the matchup problems that Bush creates allow all other players on offense to excel to a higher degree.
I agree with your overall point, that even if Bush will never have impressive stats in the NFL, he is still, along with Coach Payton, Brees, Colston, and Deuce, a solid piece of making our offense the juggernaut it has become. And now we have Shockey!!! OMG!!!!!!!! And if Meacham is for real or Deuce can make a come-back... OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
This post was edited on 8/15/08 at 3:52 am
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