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Started By
Message
Morris Claiborne, We should
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:40 pm
starting this thread cuz of how surprised I was not to see the story/link.
That and kudos to Waldeaux24 for creative thinking of this LINK
Basically just throwing out the idea that the boys might be interested in moving him. I know he's been injured a lot but there calling his play bust too. He hasn't been able to move up any further than #3 behind Scandrick.
The most relevant part to me-
The bold move would result in the Cowboys trading Claiborne for maybe a third-round pick. NFL teams aren't going to give up anything higher than that, considering Claiborne's health issues and a lack of play-making ability in his first two seasons.
the complete story HERE
--Ryan should have a good take on his potential.
-for 3rd or maybe even 4th, for a guy on his rookie contract, I say, we should (if Ryan says he wants him).
Automatic ST traffic jam tho
That and kudos to Waldeaux24 for creative thinking of this LINK
Basically just throwing out the idea that the boys might be interested in moving him. I know he's been injured a lot but there calling his play bust too. He hasn't been able to move up any further than #3 behind Scandrick.
The most relevant part to me-
The bold move would result in the Cowboys trading Claiborne for maybe a third-round pick. NFL teams aren't going to give up anything higher than that, considering Claiborne's health issues and a lack of play-making ability in his first two seasons.
the complete story HERE
--Ryan should have a good take on his potential.
-for 3rd or maybe even 4th, for a guy on his rookie contract, I say, we should (if Ryan says he wants him).
Automatic ST traffic jam tho
This post was edited on 3/1/14 at 7:41 pm
10
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:48 pm to blueslover
The dude hasn't really produced much in the NFL at all.
I'm not sure what Ryan would see in him.
I'm not sure what Ryan would see in him.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:50 pm to blueslover
I wouldn't trade our 3rd rounder whatsoever but I could be tempted to do it for a 4th. I just really hope it's true that he's completely out of his element in their defense because we need to hit a homerun with all of our picks this year.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:51 pm to blueslover
Could be a great value if we think he'd fit.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 7:59 pm to St Augustine
For a 4th? Heck yeah, I'd go for that. And if anyone knows the inside scoop, it'd be Ryan. He played his best ball when Ryan was there, granted he wasn't a world beater or anything, but he didn't absolutely suck.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:04 pm to Hoodoo Man
The saints like smart football DBs with high IQs. Morris Clairborne is a genuine jackass with a very poor IQ. 6 on his wonderlic and then told everyone out there he didn't care cause he'd make more money than all of us. Now he is a NFL bust.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:11 pm to blueslover
I'd take a chance for a 4th. I like his size.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:12 pm to grahammooney
quote:
The saints like smart football DBs with high IQs. Morris Clairborne is a genuine jackass with a very poor IQ. 6 on his wonderlic and then told everyone out there he didn't care cause he'd make more money than all of us. Now he is a NFL bust.
Tell us how you really feel.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:16 pm to grahammooney
quote:To be fair, he's still making more money than most people.
The saints like smart football DBs with high IQs. Morris Clairborne is a genuine jackass with a very poor IQ. 6 on his wonderlic and then told everyone out there he didn't care cause he'd make more money than all of us. Now he is a NFL bust.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:17 pm to CocoLoco
Actually, since he had little if any experience with zone at LSU the leap is further. Man coverage is truly a lot simpler intellectually. Just like some players don't have the build for a position, some may not have the mind for it. That was an essential problem with Spags scheme. Too much thinking and not enough purer reacting.
3rd I dunno. But 4th or later, if you feel he has real potential to blossom here, then I couldn't argue.
3rd I dunno. But 4th or later, if you feel he has real potential to blossom here, then I couldn't argue.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:27 pm to Hoodoo Man
He didnt this past year. But thats because they switched schemes. And the entire Dallas D suffered.
Claiborne is pretty solid in man to man coverage. Thats what he is best at. And was solid his rookie year at it.
It just shows what a horrible fire and hire Jones did. The Cowboys went out and paid top $ for Brandon Carr and drafted Claiborne top 10 overall. And the rest of that D was built for a 3-4 man scheme. Then he fires Ryan and hires Kiffin. Who runs a 4-3 tampa 2 scheme, which the team isnt built for. They wasted a lot of $$$ on Carr and a top 10 pick on Claiborne. Those guys are man to man CBs, not zone.
And blues you are right. Man to man is a simpler scheme mentally, but harder physically. While zone is more complex mentally, but not as hard as man to man.
But if its a 3rd/4th round for Mo, Im in. And Ryan drafted him for Dallas and knows what kind of player he is. If we go after him, its because Ryan has faith in Claiborne. If Ryan does, I do too.
Claiborne is pretty solid in man to man coverage. Thats what he is best at. And was solid his rookie year at it.
It just shows what a horrible fire and hire Jones did. The Cowboys went out and paid top $ for Brandon Carr and drafted Claiborne top 10 overall. And the rest of that D was built for a 3-4 man scheme. Then he fires Ryan and hires Kiffin. Who runs a 4-3 tampa 2 scheme, which the team isnt built for. They wasted a lot of $$$ on Carr and a top 10 pick on Claiborne. Those guys are man to man CBs, not zone.
And blues you are right. Man to man is a simpler scheme mentally, but harder physically. While zone is more complex mentally, but not as hard as man to man.
But if its a 3rd/4th round for Mo, Im in. And Ryan drafted him for Dallas and knows what kind of player he is. If we go after him, its because Ryan has faith in Claiborne. If Ryan does, I do too.
This post was edited on 3/1/14 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:37 pm to KG5989
I'll play Devil's Advocate to myself.
In 2012 (when he was presumably allowed to engage in man coverage), his PFF scores were:
Overall = -4.5
Run defense = -4.6
Coverage=+2.7
Plus serious deductions for penalties.
In 2013 (when he was forced into a Cover 2), his PFF scores were:
Overall = -6.6
Run Defense = -0.7
Coverage = -7.8
Plus he cleaned up his penalties big time.
The take away message is this: in the first year, he was a decent-to-good cover corner (playing man) who struggled with penalties and against the run.
In the second season, he improved his run defense and penalties a great deal (no doubt through experience), but his coverage seriously suffered.
So, maybe he would produce here with Ryan.
In 2012 (when he was presumably allowed to engage in man coverage), his PFF scores were:
Overall = -4.5
Run defense = -4.6
Coverage=+2.7
Plus serious deductions for penalties.
In 2013 (when he was forced into a Cover 2), his PFF scores were:
Overall = -6.6
Run Defense = -0.7
Coverage = -7.8
Plus he cleaned up his penalties big time.
The take away message is this: in the first year, he was a decent-to-good cover corner (playing man) who struggled with penalties and against the run.
In the second season, he improved his run defense and penalties a great deal (no doubt through experience), but his coverage seriously suffered.
So, maybe he would produce here with Ryan.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:40 pm to KG5989
quote:Yeah that was an insanely stupid fire/hire.
It just shows what a horrible fire and hire Jones did. The Cowboys went out and paid top $ for Brandon Carr and drafted Claiborne 10th overall. And the rest of that D was built for a 3-4 man scheme. Then he fires Ryan and hires Kiffin. Who runs a 4-3 tampa 2 scheme, which the team isnt built for. They wasted a lot of $$$ on Carr and a top 10 pick on Claiborne. Those guys are man to man CBs, not zone.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 8:50 pm to Hoodoo Man
Ryan basically hand picked him like 8th overall. I think if you get him back to press man coverage, he'll succeed. I would love to see Mo come home. He wouldn't even need to be the #1 guy.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:00 pm to Hoodoo Man
The penalty issue is easy to explain, but I'd like to ask if you could see his snap counts both years also because less snaps means less chances of picking up penalties.
When you're playing man you tend to be in a position to pick up more holding and pass interference penalties. In zone, unless it is deep zone on a deep pass, the opportunity for penalties drastically goes down in coverage.
And while I didn't follow him this past year, I know his first year he picked up several holding and pass interference penalties.
The run defense can also be explained in the same way(zone allows you to see the run unfold and where to attack, whereas in man you often get caught off guard), though with that much of a difference it also seems his technique has improved.
The numbers definitely say he is a much better man corner though. And since we run more man(much more man) with our CBs, he could be a nice add for cheap.
So put me in the boat of if Ryan wants him so do I. I'd consider giving up our 3rd since it's on the back half anyway.
When you're playing man you tend to be in a position to pick up more holding and pass interference penalties. In zone, unless it is deep zone on a deep pass, the opportunity for penalties drastically goes down in coverage.
And while I didn't follow him this past year, I know his first year he picked up several holding and pass interference penalties.
The run defense can also be explained in the same way(zone allows you to see the run unfold and where to attack, whereas in man you often get caught off guard), though with that much of a difference it also seems his technique has improved.
The numbers definitely say he is a much better man corner though. And since we run more man(much more man) with our CBs, he could be a nice add for cheap.
So put me in the boat of if Ryan wants him so do I. I'd consider giving up our 3rd since it's on the back half anyway.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:05 pm to Melvin
quote:When Ryan got fired I thought it was stupid and they were obviously using him as a scapegoat. The D was still middle of the road despite a ton of injuries.
Yeah that was an insanely stupid fire/hire.
When they hired the over the hill Kiffin who'd been run out of the league because cover 2 no longer works with the new rules plus offenses figuring schemes to bust it, it brought a huge smile to my face.
Knowing that Ryan ran a lot of man and had built up the secondary for that, I could see disaster waiting to happen.
It's also something that gives me hope for the Bucs. Most of the back end is built for man, yet this is going to be the second coach to run zone dominate schemes with them.
Revis = money down the toilet for the Bucs.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:05 pm to bonethug0108
He played nearly twice as many snaps the first year as compared to the second year.
But his penalties are actually in the positive for the second season.
So that would presumably have continued to increase with more snaps.
The scant number of snaps in 2013 combined with his -7.8 coverage score indicates even more that he has suffered from scheme.
But his penalties are actually in the positive for the second season.
So that would presumably have continued to increase with more snaps.
The scant number of snaps in 2013 combined with his -7.8 coverage score indicates even more that he has suffered from scheme.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:06 pm to bonethug0108
quote:They're considering shopping him.
Revis = money down the toilet for the Bucs.
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:07 pm to Hoodoo Man
Yeah I can see that. I definitely think Ryan can continue to fine tune his game if he felt he's worth the asking price.
Edit:
I've heard that but after the injury and then a down year his stock has to have taken a hit. Being that his contract is literally $16m every year and not back loaded, they'd have to find a team desperate for a corner with the cap space.
I'd imagine most teams would rather wait to see if he gets cut and then work out a better deal for them.
Edit:
I've heard that but after the injury and then a down year his stock has to have taken a hit. Being that his contract is literally $16m every year and not back loaded, they'd have to find a team desperate for a corner with the cap space.
I'd imagine most teams would rather wait to see if he gets cut and then work out a better deal for them.
This post was edited on 3/1/14 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:10 pm to blueslover
If Rob Ryan still sees something there in him, then definitely for a 4th. If Dallas were to say no to a 4th and ask for a 3rd, then I would at least try to counter with a 3rd and a swap of 4ths (Dallas has the 14th pick in round 4) before possibly giving in to a 3rd. Or even then go to a swap of 5ths (Dallas has the 18th pick in round 5) after that before thinking more about giving up just a 3rd.
This post was edited on 3/1/14 at 9:12 pm
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