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Message
re: Star Trek: TOS Watchers - Season 1 Wrapup *Page 25*
Posted on 10/6/13 at 10:35 pm to Thunder Tiger
Posted on 10/6/13 at 10:35 pm to Thunder Tiger
*A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON*
A great story about a phony, sterile war with real consequences. Kirk has to violate Federation principles of non-interference when bureaucratic interference with his command embroils the Enterprise and her crew in a centuries old interplanetary conflict.
Great guest performances by David Opashtu (considered for the role of Dr. Royce, the Enterprise's first doctor), Gene Lyons and Barbara Babcock (her second appearance in TOS, but the first onscreen, as she previously voiced Trelane's mother in The Squire of Gothos), and she would return, onscreen, in the third season's Plato's Stepchildren, as well as provide voices for a number of other TOS episodes.
A great story about a phony, sterile war with real consequences. Kirk has to violate Federation principles of non-interference when bureaucratic interference with his command embroils the Enterprise and her crew in a centuries old interplanetary conflict.
Great guest performances by David Opashtu (considered for the role of Dr. Royce, the Enterprise's first doctor), Gene Lyons and Barbara Babcock (her second appearance in TOS, but the first onscreen, as she previously voiced Trelane's mother in The Squire of Gothos), and she would return, onscreen, in the third season's Plato's Stepchildren, as well as provide voices for a number of other TOS episodes.
This post was edited on 10/10/13 at 1:44 pm
3
Posted on 10/7/13 at 12:02 am to Ace Midnight
This is one of my favorite TOS episodes. Kirk really laid down the law at the end.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 9:45 am to Spock's Eyebrow
quote:
This is one of my favorite TOS episodes. Kirk really laid down the law at the end.
Kirk had a lot of the best moments in this one, but there was also Scotty's, "The haggis is in the fire, for sure." & "Of course I could treat them to a few dozen photon torpedoes." lines - two of his best.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 9:51 am to Ace Midnight
This is just great science fiction writing. I don't know if the concept of a "steril war" had ever appeared before, but it is so very thought provoking. This theme is so poingant. Especially today.
We tend to think of war as dirty and nasty so we make these unmanned drones fly and the pilots are basically sitting back home playing a video game. We are closer to this technolgy than ever before.
We tend to think of war as dirty and nasty so we make these unmanned drones fly and the pilots are basically sitting back home playing a video game. We are closer to this technolgy than ever before.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:04 am to Grey Matter
quote:
This is just great science fiction writing. I don't know if the concept of a "steril war" had ever appeared before, but it is so very thought provoking. This theme is so poingant. Especially today.
The Cold War and MAD concepts drove a lot of this - the idea that wars could be fought from a distance, with missiles and long-range bombers. Star Trek really was a product of its time - the great science fiction writers of the 1950s and 1960s were all heavily influenced by the post-WWII military realities.
This story was actually written by television writer Robert Hamner (who would go on to create SWAT in the 1970s) and the script was co-written by him and long-time TOS writer/producer, Gene Coon.
This post was edited on 10/7/13 at 10:24 am
Posted on 10/7/13 at 1:17 pm to Grey Matter
I think it goes back even farther. Taking the concept of rules of warfare to the limit could result in something like this, because the underlying idea seems to be, "We can't eliminate war, so let's establish rules so we don't destroy ourselves and even make it honorable." On the flip side are Clarke's octospiders from the later Rama books. They fight war only when the enemy poses an existential threat, and then they use their biological weapons to exterminate the enemy as quickly and thoroughly as possible. They basically go all-in on genocide. They regard this as a crime, albeit a necessary one, and after they win, all the commanders submit to "termination" rather than take a chance on exerting any influence on the ordinarily peaceful populace.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 9:01 am to Spock's Eyebrow
Truly great episode, and another one that horrified me as a child. The idea of all those people walking into the disintegration chamber... 
Lots of great momenta for the characters, especially Kirk and Scotty. It's very satisfying to see Kirk take such a hard line with Anon. He embraces his "barbarism" to bring about peace.
I also enjoyed seeing Fox flip out when he was going to be put in the disintegration chamber.
quote:
All right. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today.
Lots of great momenta for the characters, especially Kirk and Scotty. It's very satisfying to see Kirk take such a hard line with Anon. He embraces his "barbarism" to bring about peace.
I also enjoyed seeing Fox flip out when he was going to be put in the disintegration chamber.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 11:09 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Great episode. Very provocative. And yeah, Scotty threatening to "treat" them to a few dozen photon torpedos was hilarious.
A Taste of Armageddon
quote:Kirk wouldn't do that
Kirk has to violate Federation principles of non-interference
Seemed like Kirk could quickly rationalize doing so if it suited him, e.g., "they may be changed by the knowledge, but it's better than extermination" - For the World is Hollow , I believe. Or "that refers to a living, growing society" - The Apple. Even Spock would usually just offer a somewhat half-hearted objection and then just drop it. Off the top of my head, only A Private Little War of TOS seemed to convey the gravity of interference (although the Klingons had already interfered first.) NG's crew violated it as well, but non-interference seemed to be treated far more seriously by them, and they truly seemed to struggle with it each time. At least it was given far more serious lip service, as I think it should've been.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 12:13 pm to Thunder Tiger
quote:
NG's crew violated it as well, but non-interference seemed to be treated far more seriously by them, and they truly seemed to struggle with it each time. At least it was given far more serious lip service, as I think it should've been.
Maybe they learned a lot from some of Kirk's diplomatic "miscues"? Just like the time cops in DS9 explaining how Kirk was the worst offender, ever.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 3:37 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Didn't see that 'cause I didn't watch DS9 as much, but it doesn't surprise me Kirk was the worst offender.
Maybe they learned a lot from some of Kirk's diplomatic "miscues"? Just like the time cops in DS9 explaining how Kirk was the worst offender, ever.
The writers sure kept him much more of a cowboy, even through the mid 90s movie Generations.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 4:27 pm to Thunder Tiger
quote:
The writers sure kept him much more of a cowboy, even through the mid 90s movie Generations.
That is a lot of projection of Shatner onto the character - he raises those saddlebred horses on his ranch - the one he rode in Generations was one of the horses he bred and raised, Great Belles of Fire.
When you look at how much work he was able to do (when the others were almost completely typecast - Nimoy got a tiny bit of non-Spock work, Koenig was in Babylon 5), outside of Star Trek, and doing things his way, makes you look up to the guy, terribly inflated ego notwithstanding.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 7:05 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Very interesting, knew he loved, bred and raised horses, didn't know the one he rode in Generations was one of them. He and Picard bonding on horseback - very cool. :bromance:
That is a lot of projection of Shatner onto the character - he raises those saddlebred horses on his ranch - the one he rode in Generations was one of the horses he bred and raised, Great Belles of Fire.
quote:
When you look at how much work he was able to do (when the others were almost completely typecast - Nimoy got a tiny bit of non-Spock work, Koenig was in Babylon 5), outside of Star Trek, and doing things his way, makes you look up to the guy, terribly inflated ego notwithstanding.
Amazing guy. Man's been relevant since the early 60's, including the classic Twilight Zone -Nightmare at 20,000 Feet , and is still working today, including fairly funny Price Line commercials. Overacting nonwithstanding, one of the greats IMO.
This post was edited on 10/8/13 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 10/8/13 at 7:17 pm to Thunder Tiger
quote:
Amazing guy. Man's been relevant since the early 60's in the classic Twilight Zone Nightmare at 20,000 Feet
He was hard at work acting on television as early as 1953 - he tried feature films and appeared in 2 1961 releases, one as the lead in a rare Buzz Kulik film called The Explosive Generation - Kulik worked primarily in television as well, including Twilight Zone (although he did not do Nightmare at 20,000 Feet), but is most remembered for Brian's Song. In this film, Shatner played a sex education teacher at a time when the subject was very taboo (I have not seen the film.)
The other 1961 feature release with the man who would become and define our intrepid Captain James T. Kirk, was in Judgment at Nuremberg, playing a young US Army JAG captain as clerk to Spencer Tracy's lead role as the presiding judge. He also starred in a 1962 Roger Corman film called The Intruder, but then it was back to mainly television, with only the occasional film role (Star Trek films, notwithstanding) even up until today.
Even so, he's never been afraid to work - although some are archival and as himself, IMDB lists 207 acting credits over a 60 year career in film and television.
IMDB entry for The Shat
Posted on 10/8/13 at 9:10 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Damn. Didn't realize he started that early.
He was hard at work acting on television as early as 1953
quote:Wow, didn't know that, either. Love WWII stuff, and am vaguely familiar with this film, but didn't realize The Shat was in it.
The other 1961 feature release with the man who would become and define our intrepid Captain James T. Kirk, was in Judgment at Nuremberg, playing a young US Army JAG captain as clerk to Spencer Tracy's lead role as the presiding judge.
Apologize for the hijack - but have you seen the movie Free Enterprise? Great flick about a couple of trekkies meeting Shatner IRL, and being kinda disappointed? Pretty clever film.
Anyway, please carry on with this thread - good stuff.
This post was edited on 10/8/13 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 10/9/13 at 12:14 pm to Thunder Tiger
quote:
Apologize for the hijack - but have you seen the movie Free Enterprise?
Heard about it - haven't see it yet.
Posted on 10/10/13 at 1:43 pm to Ace Midnight
Bump - last call for A Taste of Armageddon.
Posted on 10/14/13 at 6:31 pm to Ace Midnight
*SPACE SEED*
The set up episode for the finest Science Fiction film - and one of the best films, regardless of genre, of all times - The Wrath of Khan.
The episode features the late, great Ricardo Montalban as the apex villain in the Star Trek universe. The first explicit crew member betrayal that is not due to forces outside his or her control - Marla McGivers, although she did balk at the point of Kirk being killed.
She dies offscreen between the time of this episode and and TWOK, but I wonder how the character might have evolved over the years.
The acting really went up a notch with such a good villain - the scenes between Montalban and Madylyn Rhue (McGivers) had some of the most palpable sexual tension in Star Trek history, remarkable for 2 guest stars. The conference room scene with Kirk and Spock going all good cop, bad cop on Khan, with Khan (no doubt still dealing with the residual effects of hibernation) only belatedly figuring out the tactics. This is one of the best scenes in all of TOS.
Also, one of McCoy's finest moments when he calmly offers advice to Khan on how best to kill him.
The set up episode for the finest Science Fiction film - and one of the best films, regardless of genre, of all times - The Wrath of Khan.
The episode features the late, great Ricardo Montalban as the apex villain in the Star Trek universe. The first explicit crew member betrayal that is not due to forces outside his or her control - Marla McGivers, although she did balk at the point of Kirk being killed.
She dies offscreen between the time of this episode and and TWOK, but I wonder how the character might have evolved over the years.
The acting really went up a notch with such a good villain - the scenes between Montalban and Madylyn Rhue (McGivers) had some of the most palpable sexual tension in Star Trek history, remarkable for 2 guest stars. The conference room scene with Kirk and Spock going all good cop, bad cop on Khan, with Khan (no doubt still dealing with the residual effects of hibernation) only belatedly figuring out the tactics. This is one of the best scenes in all of TOS.
Also, one of McCoy's finest moments when he calmly offers advice to Khan on how best to kill him.
This post was edited on 10/14/13 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 10/14/13 at 8:09 pm to Ace Midnight
Bump
Posted on 10/14/13 at 8:20 pm to Ace Midnight
I actually saw this episode after Wrath of Khan, so it was kind of a prequel for me, one I really looked forward to and enjoyed.
Shatner and Ricardo really played well off one another. Each had this air of superiority and slight annoyance that the opponent would not yield.
There's what I think is a funny moment when the crew's being held together in the conference room, and then the room is gassed, and everyone scatters. Scotty gets up from sitting, and one of Khan's crew is behind him, but looking completely away from Scotty. He's also not blocking Scotty's escape, but Scotty still takes the time to step towards him and cold-cock him before running away.
Posted on 10/15/13 at 6:30 am to Thunder Tiger
A little trivia to throw in here - Madylyn Rhue (McGivers) played the wife of Montalban's character in an episode of Bonanza. This previous experience with each other might help explain the excellent chemistry they had.
This post was edited on 10/15/13 at 6:30 am
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