re: Official 2013 French Open Thread

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Agassi was pretty interesting earlier this year on the evolution of the game

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Agassi played with poly strings for his last three or four years.

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I really hate to sound like a bitter old guy here, but Pat Cash literally said tonight that he hits groundies now as well as he did on tour due to racquet/string technology. Pete Sampras called Luxilon "cheatalon" when he first used it. Courier said he can hit shots now that he couldn't during his prime. Rafa is a freakazoid and should be revered for his technique, but there is a reason some of these shots weren't available in the past.

Agassi was pretty interesting earlier this year on the evolution of the game:

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Moreover, poly strings help impart spin in a vertical rotating fashion. They do nothing to help impart sidespin. Think about what a strung racquet looks like for a second. Picture in your mind what strings are face which way on a groundstroke. Here I'll help out.



After Fed hits that forehand, which strings will be shifting: the mains or the crosses? Obviously the answer is the mains. And this is hte whole idea behind poly strings. They allow those main strings to shift while the ball is on the racket, and then sort of spring back into place before the ball has come off the strings.



This imparts a super duper spin on the ball. Like a springboard for the tennis ball.


But, again, only the main strings shift. Cross strings never shift. This is why the main strings are the ones that break. The mains are rubbing back and forth against the crosses, which causes them to notch and eventually break.

So, Nadal's sidespin would be straight nasty even if he were playing with Prince synthetic gut.

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t's just a different standard of tennis. It's different rules of engagement when guys can do what these guys can do. I don't recognize it from a standpoint of strategy, because I counted on getting somebody behind in a point and then slowly smothering them.

But nobody's behind in a point. You never know when they're behind in a point. That would have eliminated any ability I had to move forward in the court. Means I would have had to be a different player, would've had to have a different body. It means the game has gotten a lot better.

LINK

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Oh, and not that poly strings haven't had an effect, but I think Agassi, in that quote, is referring as much to the speed/agility of the top players as their shotmkaking.

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Have you read Rafa's book? The way it is set up is that the chapters go back and forth between being written from Rafa's perspective and from the perspective of somebody close to him. Anyway, Carlos Moya writes one che of the chapters and he talks about how much Rafa holds back on his shotmaking in actual matches versus when they practice together (or used to practice together when Rafa was coming up and Moya was one of the best in the world).

And he's right. Rafa doesn't look to end points with brilliant winners. He looks to set up rallies and pull the trigger on a winner only when he has a decided advantage in court position. But of course it doesn't always work out nicely for him like that. A lot of times he ends up getting forced into the defensive position, and when this happens is when we see the shotmaking that Moya was referring to.

Dude will be like 8 feet behind the baseline on a dead sprint and rip a forehand that bends three feet only to land an inch in the court. Who else can do that?

It reminds me a little bit of a boxer trapped in teh corner whosse "flight" response is no longer an option and so the "fight" kicks in and so he fires away with a rapid combination of punches, all of which land. I actually used to box, and whenever I was in the ring with somebody that I rspected too much, this would happen to me. I'd be overly cautious, afraid to take the offensive until I was in a position where I had no choice but to take the offensive, and then I would fire off some of my best punches. I think that's the mindset of Rafa during a point.

Also, his passing shots benefit from his speed, and his extremely underrated backhand.

I'm not sure who in history has had a better passing shot. Agassi, perhaps. But Agassi couldn't turn defense into offense like Nadal. So I'm gonna go Nadal. I'll throw Lendl in the conversation as well, but I think Nadal takes the cake.

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Nah I've never read his book, not sure why, just busy reading way too much other stuff. I read Strokes of Genius, I think is what it was called, about he and Federer's epic Wimbledon match, one of the best books I've ever read. I got a long list of books to read, but I need to add Rafa's to it.

And yea Rafa definitely tries to grind you down until he sees the easy winner to put away. On defense, like you mentioned, is when you see the incredible shot, picking up forehand at full stretch and whipping it for a winner, or crouching and bending over to where it looks like his head might hit the ground on an insane backhand.

I actually like watching Rafa play on grass more than on clay, because it forces him to play more aggressive. Having someone like Fed make Rafa transform his game is the best thing that ever happened to him. I actually think he needs to apply some of this to his clay game if he's gonna beat Djoker. He can do whatever the fvck he wants on clay and beat anyone else on tour, but he can't keep giving Djoker long rallies cause he can go defense to offense as well as Rafa if not better.

I can't wait for tomorrow, but I have a feeling it'll be Djoker in 4 ;(

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Really? I love his forehand when it's on, but it's been crippling lately. I guess that's evident of all his game, but his forehand really has gone faster than any other aspect it seems.

When it was on, it was insane though. He had some insane inside-out winners over the years at Wimbledon.

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It's been referred to as a "The Great Liquid Whip". What people don't seem to realize about Fed is that his backhand is exceedingly average. He's made a living running around it to his the forehand. The decline that you're seeing in his game is that it requires very quick feet to run around your backhand all day. And Fed is nearly 32.

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Unfortunately I think it's a slight to Djokovic to include Agassi in this, as insane as that sounds. Some of Djokovic's returns are as superhuman as anything we've seen in tennis.

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I have to give Djokovic the nod because Agassi himself gives Djokovic the nod. And also because Djoker gets aced much less than Agassi. When Agassi got his racquet on the ball, it was a clean winner a good portion of the time, but Djoker gets his racquet on way more serves than Agassi did.

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Really, over Rafa? Are you comparing sort of relative to his competition at the time? If so, I'd give it to Borg. If not, slight edge to Rafa IMO, Djokovic also prob needs to be in the discussion.

Who would win in endurance between Borg, Rafa, and the new superhuman, bread-less Djokovic?

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I honestly think that if Bjorn Borg had pursued track and field instead of tennis, that we still wouldn't be waiting for a white guy to run a sub 10 100 meter dash. Borg was THAT fast. And he's a bit before my time, but everybody who played against him says the same thing. "I think he could have been a sprinter".

I think Borg wins on endurance as well. He claims he never once got tired on a tennis court. And I believe him.

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Dropshot:

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What's that?

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Really, over Rafa? Are you comparing sort of relative to his competition at the time? If so, I'd give it to Borg. If not, slight edge to Rafa IMO, Djokovic also prob needs to be in the discussion.

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Naw man, straight up. If they ran a 40:

Borg
Rafa
Djoker

Djoker may take both of them in a shuttle run, though. Him and his bionic ankles.

I'm also curious how fast Sampras was. I'm thinking legit fast. Pull up an old clip of him. Dude was a cat. I bet his vertical leap was over 40 inches. Rumor has it that he could throw down some nasty dunks. Weirdly, Sampras never gets credit for having been a great athlete. I think possibly because he wasn't a baseliner, and we just assume a guy with a serve that good can't also be an athlete athlete. But Pistol Pete was.

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It's been referred to as a "The Great Liquid Whip". What people don't seem to realize about Fed is that his backhand is exceedingly average. He's made a living running around it to his the forehand. The decline that you're seeing in his game is that it requires very quick feet to run around your backhand all day. And Fed is nearly 32.

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Yea, I guess that makes sense. For Fed to have achieved the incredible success he had with, like you mentioned, a pretty average backhand his forehand had to pick up the slack in an insane way.

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I honestly think that if Bjorn Borg had pursued track and field instead of tennis, that we still wouldn't be waiting for a white guy to run a sub 10 100 meter dash. Borg was THAT fast. And he's a bit before my time, but everybody who played against him says the same thing. "I think he could have been a sprinter".

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O he could definitely move, do doubt about that. He could have been a track dude and Rafa could've been flying around a soccer pitch on different lifetimes.

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I think Borg wins on endurance as well. He claims he never once got tired on a tennis court. And I believe him.

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I remember seeing this as well. Made me think of Djokovic nowadays in the way he never even looks like he's glistening on the court. Rafa has insane endurance, but you can tell he's working. Djokovic these days looks like he's barely playing against a ball machine. Maybe it's just the incredible difference from the guy who used to look like he'd just finished an ultramarathon if he went to a 4th set hahaha.

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Djoker may take both of them in a shuttle run, though. Him and his bionic ankles.

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Yea, dude is like Gumby out there on the court these days.

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I'm also curious how fast Sampras was. I'm thinking legit fast. Pull up an old clip of him. Dude was a cat. I bet his vertical leap was over 40 inches. Rumor has it that he could throw down some nasty dunks. Weirdly, Sampras never gets credit for having been a great athlete. I think possibly because he wasn't a baseliner, and we just assume a guy with a serve that good can't also be an athlete athlete. But Pistol Pete was.

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I think Sampras also falls into a bit of Federer's category that he made it look so easy. Points were so fast and easy you never saw the athletic feats we see with Nadal and others.

I have no doubt he could dunk. Some of his leaping overhead lob smashes were awwwwwwesome.

And yea Pistol Pete was one of the most athletic players for his day as well as one of the earliest players to really implement weight training in basketball. I read somewhere Press would have him lay in his bed at night and shoot the basketball into the air, simply with the flick of his wrist to strengthen his shot. Word was he could casually shoot something insane like a 20lb medicine ball into the air.

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And yea Pistol Pete was one of the most athletic players for his day as well as one of the earliest players to really implement weight training in basketball. I read somewhere Press would have him lay in his bed at night and shoot the basketball into the air, simply with the flick of his wrist to strengthen his shot. Word was he could casually shoot something insane like a 20lb medicine ball into the air

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Ha! I wasn't even thinking about Maravich, but you very well could be right about that.

Pistol Pete wrist redirection pass.

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I can't wait for tomorrow, but I have a feeling it'll be Djoker in 4 ;(



I'm a Rafa fan, but I fear he will go down.

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I like Nadal but I hope Djoko takes him. A great 4 sets would be enough.