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re: What is Bitcoin? This might help
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:25 pm to WikiTiger
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:25 pm to WikiTiger
quote:Then why are most of your bitcoin threads inclusive of you bragging about how much bitcoin has appreciated versus the dollar? Yet you admit (in your latest Poli Board thread) you've never bought anything with bitcoins. So you obviously are speculating on its continued appreciation and you encourage others to participate in order to drive up the value of your bitcoins. That's no different than a typical "pump and dump" stock manipulation scheme.
But the purpose of bitcoin is not to make money.
quote:Now THAT's comforting! I wonder why they want to remain anonymous. It couldn't have anything to do with avoiding later prosecution when they make their money and scram away could it? Or because the primary purpose of bitcoins is to conduct illegal transactions, including buying illegal drugs or money laundering? Nah, that couldn't be it......
a group of individuals/developers that have chosen to remain anonymous.
quote:If you say encrypting data is used "the world over", then I agree. If you are trying to say the same algorithms used by bitcoins or the process of "mining" coins are used the world over by governments and banks, then you're not being truthful.
The technology is well established and used by governments and banks the world over.
quote:Such as....let me see.....YOU!?!
I'm sure many bitcoin users ridicule some people.
You have criticized others on this board and the Poli Board numerous times just because they had the nerve of questioning the propriety of bitcoins as a legitimate resource. It's one of the reasons you stopped replying to my posts on your favorite topic. All you did was resort to name calling, which I refused to participate in. So you took your ball and went home....
quote:
Most users of the US dollar don't understand how the system works either.
I'm betting the majority of users of the United States dollar know the full faith and credit of the United States stands behind the dollar. What stands behind bitcoins? Algorithms???
quote:How do we know the initial programmers didn't stash away a unique way of breaking into the code with an embedded type of virus within the software so that they can manipulate it when it benefits them financially? Are you guaranteeing you have gone through every line of the source code and you personally guarantee there can be no way the software can be manipulated by any of the original anonymous, faceless, secret inventors?
The code behind bitcoin is 100% open source and available for anyone around the world to analyze.
quote:
People use bitcoins for many reasons.
That's not the point.
The concept attracts society's gullible, paranoid fringe.
It's ironic that many of the proponents of bitcoin, you included, are quick to criticize the U.S. dollar as being "fiat" and is "created out of thin air" when you turn around and proselytize others to follow you and put their money into a "currency" that's nothing more than a result of some algorithms creating 0's and 1's on a computer somewhere in the world. How much more "out of thin air" can you get than that??
0
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:31 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
I disagree that it's touted that way as a means of making money. Do people speculate on it? Sure. But the purpose of bitcoin is not to make money.
But when I type "Bitcoin" into my search engine, 8 of the first 10 results are something to the effect of "How to make money with Bitcoin". It's used as a transaction network, but come on, nobody goes through this kind complex and painstaking process for no profit. It's not a charity.
quote:
Its "creator" is most likely a pseudonym for a group of individuals/developers that have chosen to remain anonymous. Whether or not they are going to "get their money out before the system collapses" is probably of little concern, and actually depends on whether or not you believe it will collapse. Many early adopters have already been made very wealthy by the technology.
Satoshi Nakamoto is the creator's "name", most likely a fake name though. From what I understand, he's often referred to himself as "we" in his blogs, so you could be right.
It also seems that Satoshu Nakamoto purposely hides his identity. His registration to his email and domain name services uses fake names and cover ups, as well as using Tor to cover his internet tracks.
This raises a TON of questions and Red Flags for me. If it's legit, why the secrecy?
And, FWIW, a lot of early investors were made very wealthy by Bernie Madoff, but that's exactly how a Ponzi Scheme works, pay off early investors with funds from new investors to keep the scam going.
quote:
The technology is well established and used by governments and banks the world over.
Cannot confirm or refute this statement. Can you elaborate?
quote:
I'd imagine that individuals are capable of their own judgments. I'm sure many bitcoin users ridicule some people. Still, other bitcoin users are very helpful and accommodating. There are many blogs and forums where users constantly reply to the same old questions and concerns in a polite manner, despite having been asked them a thousand times before.
I will say that you have been exceptionally polite in your responses on this subject
Although, when I've read forums on this subject, I often see people ridiculed for not understanding the concept. I was called unsophisticated and small minded when my friend came to me with the Zeekrewards pitch, and for month's I listened to him talk about his 5000% returns. I didn't understand how it was possible for an investment to legally generate those kinds of returns, based on the info I was given. And I was right, he lost $20K when the Ponzi collapsed. quote:
Most users of the US dollar don't understand how the system works either.
Valid point, I do however. And a key difference is, the US dollar is (for the time being) readily exchangeable for goods and services, bitcoin is not, yet.
quote:
The code behind bitcoin is 100% open source and available for anyone around the world to analyze. If you don't have the skill set or ability to understand the code or the cryptographic technology
And I don't, which is rule #1 for me, if I can't understand it, I don't invest in it.
And Russian is trying to bait you into an internets fight, in case you have him blocked
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:44 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
And Russian is trying to bait you into an internets fight, in case you have him blocked
NYET, comrade!!!
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:48 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
But when I type "Bitcoin" into my search engine, 8 of the first 10 results are something to the effect of "How to make money with Bitcoin".
No doubt. But that's not the reason for bitcoin's existence. It was created to be an alternative deflationary currency as well as a transaction network. It's openness and flexibility will allow many people to innovate based on it. It will also allow for scammers and criminals to operate, not unlike the US dollar.
quote:
This raises a TON of questions and Red Flags for me. If it's legit, why the secrecy?
I understand that. Like I always say, if you don't understand it or trust it, then don't use it. The thing is, there are a lot of people here who appreciate learning about it while making no bitcoin purchases. Some people just enjoy watching it grow (or fail) while not taking any risks on it.
Why the secrecy? I imagine that governments won't like what it could potentially do to the global monetary system. Protecting oneself might be prudent. Despite that, there are many core developers and contributors to various bitcoin projects that are well known.
quote:
And, FWIW, a lot of early investors were made very wealthy by Bernie Madoff, but that's exactly how a Ponzi Scheme works, pay off early investors with funds from new investors to keep the scam going.
Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme by its very definition. If you want to call it a different kind of scam or scheme, then I'm all ears, but Ponzi scheme is not accurate.
quote:
Cannot confirm or refute this statement. Can you elaborate?
Bitcoin utilizes SHA256, developed by the NSA and utilized throughout the world by governments and banking networks as well as ECDSA, utilized throughout the world as well.
quote:
I will say that you have been exceptionally polite in your responses on this subject
I have my moments of being a dick to others. I'm not perfect.
quote:
And a key difference is, the US dollar is (for the time being) readily exchangeable for goods and services, bitcoin is not, yet.
I don't deny this. But bitcoin acceptance is growing. Third party services have popped up that allow a merchant to accept bitcoin but be remitted in USD (or the currency of their choice). This is an example of taking advantage of bitcoin as a transaction network, because the processing fees are much lower compared to credit cards and other electronic transfers. Reddit.com and Wordpress.com, two very popular sites utilize this method.
quote:
And I don't, which is rule #1 for me, if I can't understand it, I don't invest in it.
I completely understand that. But like I said earlier, my purpose for these threads are that there are many people here, especially on the poli board, who enjoy learning about bitcoins but aren't interested in getting involved with it personally.
quote:
And Russian is trying to bait you into an internets fight, in case you have him blocked
Years ago I actually wrote a piece of software that added an ignore feature to TigerDroppings. I released it to the OT board but the admins deleted the thread because they didn't want that feature to be available to people.
See, the thing is, I understand computers and software. I understand how to read and write code. I understand cryptography. And I believe in bitcoin.
This post was edited on 2/26/13 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:49 pm to LSURussian
quote:
NYET, comrade!!!
I dated a Russian girl for a year, so I heard "NYET" whenever I tried to PIIHB
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:52 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
I understand computers and software. I understand how to read and write code. I understand cryptography. And I believe in bitcoin.
Bookmarked.....
Posted on 2/26/13 at 4:56 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
I dated a Russian girl for a year,
In Mother Russia, you don't date girls. Girls date YOU!
FWIW, I'm not Russian. I just worked there for so many years that I included it as part of my screen name when I found out that all my other choices for a screen name were already taken.
Posted on 2/26/13 at 5:11 pm to LSURussian
quote:
In Mother Russia, you don't date girls. Girls date YOU!
This is very true. They grow some hot ones over there, and they learn how to play American chumps from birth, lol
Posted on 2/26/13 at 5:26 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
and they learn how to play American chumps from birth,
And there's always the chance the dyevushka is more interested in dating your passport than she is in dating YOU!
Posted on 2/26/13 at 5:34 pm to LSURussian
quote:
And there's always the chance the dyevushka is more interested in dating your passport than she is in dating YOU!
Oh that Shluha vokzal'naja played me like a fiddle bro. Just lucky I didn't marry her or get her pregnant. I was young and naive, and horny. Learned my lesson, never again. Unless I'm in Russia, of course, then I'll have to indulge, for warmth if nothing else
Posted on 2/26/13 at 5:37 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Unless I'm in Russia, of course, then I'll have to indulge, for warmth if nothing else
It's cheaper and safer to buy an electric heater there.
I spent parts of three winters in Moscow.
Posted on 2/26/13 at 7:09 pm to LSURussian
Could I have a bit coin in my pocket?
If so, could I buy an ICEE with it, or a lawn mower blade off of Amazon?
If so, could I buy an ICEE with it, or a lawn mower blade off of Amazon?
Posted on 2/26/13 at 7:32 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
Could I have a bit coin in my pocket?
Yes. In a couple ways. There are physical coins available. You can have bitcoins on your smartphone and use that to transact. You can also print out the private keys, although that makes transacations difficult and not practical.
Thing is, bitcoin isn't designed for traditional type transactions that you are alluding to. Fact is, the world is moving towards a cashless society. I know there are many arguments against that, and lots of nightmare scenarios to discuss. Yes, bitcoin is vulnerable to an end of the world, EMP blackout type scenario, if that's what you were getting at.
quote:
could I buy an ICEE with it
I don't know of any places that sell ICEE's that accept bitcoin. It is possible that a store that sells ICEE's eventually accept bitcoins.
quote:
or a lawn mower blade off of Amazon?
Not directly. Amazon doesn't accept bitcoin natively yet. But you can buy Amazon gift cards with bitcoin if you want.
Posted on 2/27/13 at 8:59 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
The Following concerns/accusations have been plagiarized, not copied:
This thread, while informative, has made me seriously
Posted on 2/27/13 at 9:15 am to WikiTiger
quote:
But when I type "Bitcoin" into my search engine, 8 of the first 10 results are something to the effect of "How to make money with Bitcoin".
No doubt. But that's not the reason for bitcoin's existence. It was created to be an alternative deflationary currency as well as a transaction network. It's openness and flexibility will allow many people to innovate based on it. It will also allow for scammers and criminals to operate, not unlike the US dollar.
Serious question, and I think it might be part of others' arguments....
How do we know this for sure? I'm sure that this Satoshi guy (or group) stated it at some point, but how we do know for sure, despite their anonymity?
In a similar example, I know Google would say something in their mission statement to the effect of wanting to make the internet better, more accessible or user friendly. But we all know that their goal is to make money. Same as TD.com. Certainly Chicken wanted to create a community for LSU fans and SEC fans, etc., but obviously his end goal is to make money. We all know this.
As for nonprofits, they have a particular goal or mission that is well-stated and they often have a board to help ensure that management is held accountable.
I won't get into monetary policy, but the USD is, as others have said, backed by the faith and credit of the USA and governed by multiple bodies, and ultimately responsible to the citizens. (I'm sure this paragraph can be put much more eloquently by someone else on this board, I'm just a kid.)
Who is this anonymous Satoshi character responsible to? You could, in theory, argue that he is responsible to "the citizens of the internet world," but if we don't know who he is, how can we possibly know what his motives are and keep him accountable for his actions?
Posted on 2/27/13 at 9:21 am to kennypowers816
Stop asking such good, well thought out questions! Bitcoins is beyond your mortal comprehension.
Just trust them.....
Just trust them.....
Posted on 2/27/13 at 9:50 am to kennypowers816
quote:
Serious question, and I think it might be part of others' arguments....
How do we know this for sure? I'm sure that this Satoshi guy (or group) stated it at some point, but how we do know for sure, despite their anonymity?
In a similar example, I know Google would say something in their mission statement to the effect of wanting to make the internet better, more accessible or user friendly. But we all know that their goal is to make money. Same as TD.com. Certainly Chicken wanted to create a community for LSU fans and SEC fans, etc., but obviously his end goal is to make money. We all know this.
As for nonprofits, they have a particular goal or mission that is well-stated and they often have a board to help ensure that management is held accountable.
I won't get into monetary policy, but the USD is, as others have said, backed by the faith and credit of the USA and governed by multiple bodies, and ultimately responsible to the citizens. (I'm sure this paragraph can be put much more eloquently by someone else on this board, I'm just a kid.)
Who is this anonymous Satoshi character responsible to? You could, in theory, argue that he is responsible to "the citizens of the internet world," but if we don't know who he is, how can we possibly know what his motives are and keep him accountable for his actions?
We know this for sure because everything about bitcoin is 100% open source. It is available for anyone to review. Hell, any one can even change it and create their own currency if they choose. And people have already done that.
People who suggest that there are backdoors or something written into the protocol clearly don't understand cryptography.
This post was edited on 2/27/13 at 9:58 am
Posted on 2/27/13 at 10:33 am to WikiTiger
quote:
People who suggest that there are backdoors or something written into the protocol clearly don't understand cryptography.
Knuckle dragging Neanderthals, what's so complicated about it? Simple bastards
Posted on 2/27/13 at 10:49 am to kennypowers816
quote:
This thread, while informative, has made me seriously
Me as well.Posted on 2/27/13 at 12:19 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
We know this for sure because everything about bitcoin is 100% open source. It is available for anyone to review. Hell, any one can even change it and create their own currency if they choose. And people have already done that.
People who suggest that there are backdoors or something written into the protocol clearly don't understand cryptography.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but I guess I just don't understand a lot of it. I don't understand how it can be so transparent, but people are still "mining." If it was truly transparent, couldn't anyone just find the bitcoins.
But then again, I'm no cryptography expert by any means.
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