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Message
re: Loyola Law School
Posted on 3/17/09 at 6:02 pm to TortiousTiger
Posted on 3/17/09 at 6:02 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:Probably the best advice you'll receive on this board.
My advise as an LSU grad is to not go to Law School
1
Posted on 3/17/09 at 6:49 pm to Thomas Hudson
quote:
Not really. Firms hire first years primarily from their summer associate programs, and will continue doing so. He'll just be competing with his fellow 2Ls for those positions, not the students who graduated a year or two earlier.
maybe 40% of louisiana firms do this and even the ones that do subscribe to this still take on 2nd and 3rd year lateral hires.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 6:53 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
My advise as an LSU grad is to not go to Law School.
Probably the best advice you'll receive on this board.
Second that.
In deciding where to go to Law school, you should look at Bar exam passage rates. Pointless to waste 3 years of your life getting a J.D. if you can't pass the bar.
Here's the results from July 2008 Bar Results
Posted on 3/17/09 at 7:26 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:Yeah Thomas Hudson clearly went to a national law school and went the whole big firm route. That's not realistic coming from Loyola or Southern, and probably only realistic for the top 10% of the class at LSU and top third at Tulane (rough numbers obviously).
maybe 40% of louisiana firms do this and even the ones that do subscribe to this still take on 2nd and 3rd year lateral hires
Posted on 3/17/09 at 7:35 pm to Cold Cous Cous
I am 24 and I can honestly say that by, say 2011 graduation, I will know more people will law degrees than all other degrees combined. You could probably almost double the other degrees. I know several of my friends that always wanted to go to law school and are doing extremely well at LSU and Loyola, and will in all likelihood make good money. I know plenty more with marginal grades that think they're going to be making 65k+ in nola simply because they have a jd.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 7:54 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
My advise as an LSU grad is to not go to Law School. there are much easier ways to make a living and I know plenty of '08 LSU Law grads who cannot find a job even in louisiana.
More than 90% of 2008 LSU Law grads had a job coming out of school. I know another 7 or so graduates that were recently hired as DAs (some parishes don't hire until after someone has passed the bar so these people were waiting on their results.)
Posted on 3/17/09 at 8:21 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
maybe 40% of louisiana firms do this
Fair enough. And I also don't know the respective percentage of Loyola, LSU, Tulane, or SULC students that go to these types of firms. I clerked at Jones Walker after my first year of law school and had numerous co-clerks from Loyola, Tulane, and LSU alike.
quote:
and even the ones that do subscribe to this still take on 2nd and 3rd year lateral hires.
Well sure, but almost never as alternatives to summer associates. The two just don't compete for jobs at (relatively large) law firms--summer associates always come first.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 8:23 pm to Antonio Moss
Negative. 90% of people responding to the survey had a job upon graduation. If you don't have a job then you are much less likely to takethe survey. It's a tool universities use to create an illusion.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:25 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
More than 90% of 2008 LSU Law grads had a job coming out of school. I know another 7 or so graduates that were recently hired as DAs (some parishes don't hire until after someone has passed the bar so these people were waiting on their results.)
quote:
Negative. 90% of people responding to the survey had a job upon graduation.
90% plus the seven people whose offers from DAs were contingent on passing the bar equals "more than 90%."
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:30 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
Negative. 90% of people responding to the survey had a job upon graduation. If you don't have a job then you are much less likely to takethe survey.
This is widely known to be a true and observable phenomenon. Whatever the published job #s are, they lie.
Also they don't tell you that they count any job, whether in the legal field or not. I know a dude who went on to to coach high school basketball, but as far as LSU was concerned he had a job so he counted. You get desperate to pay your student loans so you get a job bartending at the Chimes? Congratulations, you count as employed!
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:37 pm to Antonio Moss
Most people who do not have jobs, do not respond to the career services survey and are thus not counted in employment statistics. Additionally, I know one lsu law 08 grad working at target and another at the mall.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:41 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
Most people who do not have jobs, do not respond to the career services survey and are thus not counted in employment statistics.
Well most people don't fill them out regardless. I had a job by September of my third year and didn't fill it out.
quote:
Additionally, I know one lsu law 08 grad working at target and another at the mall.
I wonder who. I know three total that aren't working in the legal field; one is making more money that 95% of my class.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:57 pm to Antonio Moss
I am thinking about going Fall 2010, I know an 08 grad who finished in the top group of the class and he is line for a big job in Texas once he passes the bar, anyway my question is this with a law degree, isn't much like anything else how hard you work, how well you do, and the connections you make that will determine your job coming out of school, or just how hard is it to get a job?
Posted on 3/17/09 at 10:02 pm to Antonio Moss
Did you end up at JW? A buddy of mine who graduated from LSU Law last May is working there. Top 10% and all that jazz.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 10:31 pm to 610man
For the most part you're right, but keep in mind, it's not how hard you work, it's how hard you work in comparison to everyone else (which most people are very smart and have decent work ethics. disclaimer: i mean book smarts)
Keep in mind, a job is just the begining. You need to evaluate your opportunities and figure out if working 55-60 hours a week for the next 25 years is worth it. (65 hours for your buddy in texas)
Pay in louisiana is usually in tiers. If you're in the top 10%, you may make around 90k. below that there is a mid sized firm tier, which is about 50-60k starting pay.
You get the drift.
I know I was offered jobs when I got out of college for what i'm making out of law school. It is what it is.
Good luck to you with whatever you choose.
Keep in mind, a job is just the begining. You need to evaluate your opportunities and figure out if working 55-60 hours a week for the next 25 years is worth it. (65 hours for your buddy in texas)
Pay in louisiana is usually in tiers. If you're in the top 10%, you may make around 90k. below that there is a mid sized firm tier, which is about 50-60k starting pay.
You get the drift.
I know I was offered jobs when I got out of college for what i'm making out of law school. It is what it is.
Good luck to you with whatever you choose.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 11:01 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
Pay in louisiana is usually in tiers. If you're in the top 10%, you may make around 90k. below that there is a mid sized firm tier, which is about 50-60k starting pay.
I would disagree with that.
Top pay is anywhere from 90K - 110K, but expect to put in extreme hours.
Midrange pay runs from 70K - 80K, the vast majority of people I graduated with run in this group. 75K in NOLA isn't anything to write home about, but 75K in Lafayette or Shreveport is a really, really good salary. The third tier is 50K - 60K. Then there are people who work in the public sector, but those jobs have upsides outside of pay.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 11:02 pm to kfizzle85
quote:
Did you end up at JW? A buddy of mine who graduated from LSU Law last May is working there. Top 10% and all that jazz.
No, but several of my friends work there.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 11:14 pm to Antonio Moss
Moss and Tiger, what is your overall advice or opinion on entering law school now or in the next few years?
This post was edited on 3/17/09 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 3/17/09 at 11:14 pm to Antonio Moss
i'm pretty sure you have a distorted view of pay because you have a higher paying job.
I've discussed this throughly ad nauseum with career services before. Top pay in BR-90k top in nola-100k top in lafayette-75k (these are all approximates and are starting pay.
there is no midrange in 70-80. in fact there is a pretty big drop all the way down to 50-60, maybe 65k.
Smaller plaintiffs firms, you could be talking a base pay of all the way down to 35-42k plus incentives for pulling in business.
I've discussed this throughly ad nauseum with career services before. Top pay in BR-90k top in nola-100k top in lafayette-75k (these are all approximates and are starting pay.
there is no midrange in 70-80. in fact there is a pretty big drop all the way down to 50-60, maybe 65k.
Smaller plaintiffs firms, you could be talking a base pay of all the way down to 35-42k plus incentives for pulling in business.
Posted on 3/17/09 at 11:18 pm to TortiousTiger
That sounds much more in line with what my mom says. She's been at it for 20+ years. She said the avg starting salary in nola is much closer to 40 than it is to 60 or 70. Not that there aren't awesome high paying jobs (like the guy I know that works for JW), just that the majority of graduates make in the 50k range, and that that is usually much lower than what they expect coming out of school.
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