- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Judging Lee on ONE game last year
Posted on 7/23/10 at 3:57 pm to Moustache
Posted on 7/23/10 at 3:57 pm to Moustache
It is kind of like saying this pitchers strikes out a lot of guys, sure he gives up a fare amount of homeruns but he gets outs. Why put in a guy who is known for not only throwing an interception, but throwing them so bad the other team score without their offense touching the field? He shot his own foot. Fans don't forget and he can blame nobody but himself.
1
Posted on 7/23/10 at 3:59 pm to Moustache
quote:
but why do people conveniently overlook the fact that he MOVED the ball in 2008
Personally I just think hes done mentally. A huge part of being a QB is getting over mistakes obviously. I just dont think he could make it through a stretch of games where he didnt let it best him. I think hes a talented guy, but hes got frickin spiders in his head.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 3:59 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Seriously, no one was stacking the box against LSU in 2009, no one.
STacking the box is not exactly relevant to what you're trying to prove. The big thing is that teams could stay in a 4-3 instead of going to their nickel package to stop the pass due to the inability to pass.
quote:
So despite the fact that Jefferson has more completions of over 15 yards than Lee,
How many games has Jefferson played vs. Lee?
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:00 pm to Moustache
quote:
Damn, it's not often you see someone who prefers an offense ranked in the 100s nationally.
You know how I know you don't know football?
Because you try and pin everything on the quarterback. If you take LSU's rushing average from 2008 and use it for the 2009 offense, then the difference is about 15 yards a game. Which is pretty good considering how much we were playing from behind in 2008.
Both Lee and Jefferson average around 178 yards per game.
Jefferson has more completions over 25+ yards
Jefferson has more TDs (by a wide margin)
Lee has more Interceptions (by a wide margin)
Jefferson gives up more sacks (+ 8 for the season)
Jefferson has a higher completion percentage (+ 8%)
Jefferson has more rushing yards (by a wide margin)
This really isn't debatable.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:01 pm to SeattleTiger19
quote:
It is kind of like saying this pitchers strikes out a lot of guys, sure he gives up a fare amount of homeruns but he gets outs. Why put in a guy who is known for not only throwing an interception, but throwing them so bad the other team score without their offense touching the field? He shot his own foot. Fans don't forget and he can blame nobody but himself.
nevermind the fact that the OC put him in a position to fail.
Nevermind the fact that the rest of the team didn't want to tackle because they gave up. 2008 had a lot of primadonnas on the field.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:02 pm to WelcomeToDeathValley
quote:
Personally I just think hes done mentally. A huge part of being a QB is getting over mistakes obviously. I just dont think he could make it through a stretch of games where he didnt let it best him. I think hes a talented guy, but hes got frickin spiders in his head
If I didn't know who you were talking about I'd believe it to be JJ. Jeferson would make a couple of bad plays and then make the cry-like face and be ineffective for the rest of the game. That is indisputable.
Plus, if Lee was done mentally, he would've freaking quit and went to Sam Houston St, but he didn't.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:03 pm to Moustache
quote:
I know Lee looked awful in the La Tech game, but why do people conveniently overlook the fact that he MOVED the ball in 2008.
I know he threw pick sixes, but those same people made excuses for Jefferson for last year too. Who's to say he hasn't improved?
Granted the spring game doesn't mean shite, but how can anyone honestly say the Offense didn't work better with him?
BTW, here are the point totals from 2008 by games Lee played in. It looks like D was the bigger problem and a young QB just took his growing pains and wasn't allowed to grow into the next year. Instead we put in a QB whose only goal was to "not throw an INt."
26
34
21
24
38
21
Didn't really have a problem moving the ball until the team gave up at the Ole Miss game.
I have defended Lee on here(and Jefferson, too) and think he played much better than JJ in the spring game and have not given up on the possibility of both he and Jefferson improving significantly from last year to this.
However, the seasons are not played in a vaccuum, and if you can't understand the context of the 2 and realize that there were different personnel, diffferent opponents, different game situations, etc...then you're probably not truly prepared to have this conversation.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:04 pm to Antonio Moss
I don't get how you can say the passing game works better under Jefferson. Its hard to be successful when your laying on your back. Bottom line is that Lee is a better leader just look at the spring game. Hell Jefferson new what was coming and still he couldn't figure it out. Say what ya'll will about Lee (most of you guys struggle playing paper football) but the guy has a ton of character taking in all the crap from all the idiots who think they actually have a clue and still he is out there competing hard. And lets not forget the year he threw all the pick 6s - he was thrown in no mans land, (coaches didn't do their job period)the o-line stunk, the defense was OK, but the coaches lost that team. Crowton better get it together.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:04 pm to Moustache
quote:
STacking the box is not exactly relevant to what you're trying to prove. The big thing is that teams could stay in a 4-3 instead of going to their nickel package to stop the pass due to the inability to pass.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. No one stayed in 4-3 (or 3-4) against us last because we could run the ball. Teams stayed with 4-5 DBs on the field. Our rushing offense was that bad.
quote:
How many games has Jefferson played vs. Lee?
That comparison is 2009 v. 2008. It does not take into account Jefferson's three games in 2008 and does not take into account Lee's La Tech game this year.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:05 pm to Moustache
quote:
nevermind the fact that the OC put him in a position to fail.
Exactly. Did we open up 5 wide against UGA in 09 like we did in 08? Nope and then drive still ended in an interception.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:07 pm to Moustache
quote:
nevermind the fact that the OC put him in a position to fail.
Right, because Gary Crowton was fricking marvelous last year.
Look, if there is one tried and true argument here, it's that Crowton is far and away are biggest problem and had royally screwed up the progression of both Jefferson and Lee.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:08 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
You know how I know you don't know football?
You know how I know you don't know football?
Let bust each one of these myths:
quote:
If you take LSU's rushing average from 2008 and use it for the 2009 offense, then the difference is about 15 yards a game. Which is pretty good considering how much we were playing from behind in 2008.
15 yds per game does not pull this team out of the 90s in rankings.
quote:
Both Lee and Jefferson average around 178 yards per game.
The threat of the pass can open up the run too you know. If a team never has to switch out of their 4-3 or 3-4 to a nickel package, then the run will be ineffective.
quote:
Jefferson has more completions over 25+ yards
and how many more attempts does JJ have?
quote:
Jefferson has more TDs (by a wide margin)
attempts?
quote:
Lee has more Interceptions (by a wide margin)
quote:
Jefferson has a higher completion percentage (+ 8%)
Hard to throw picks and incomplete passes when you take so many sacks and run for 1 yd gains.
Plus, Jefferson's wind up and mechanics really hinder our offense's effectiveness.
This is really indebatable.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:09 pm to arobbi3
quote:
Exactly. Did we open up 5 wide against UGA in 09 like we did in 08? Nope and then drive still ended in an interception.
No, instead Crowton would run all of his receivers deep when our OL couldn't hold a block for more than three seconds. In addition, there would be no drop off route to a RB or TE. By the time WR's made their break, Jefferson is running for his life.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:09 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, instead Crowton would run all of his receivers deep when our OL couldn't hold a block for more than three seconds. In addition, there would be no drop off route to a RB or TE. By the time WR's made their break, Jefferson is running for his life.
fricking Vandy was getting to Jefferson all night long.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:11 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
...then you're probably not truly prepared to have this conversation.
I understand this. What I don't understand is why people are SO vehemently against giving Lee another shot but almost coddle to Jefferson even if he fails.
If anyone seriously believes Lee has mentally checked out like previous posters have implied, then that 's a little ridiculous. The kid has gone through his own freaking stadium booing him after 1 poor pass last year at La Tech (I know he had more, but there were boos after the 1st) and he is still here busting his arse trying to get another chance.
I'm not saying he should start, but I wouldn't let the job be Jefferson's the whole year either until one of them earns it.
This post was edited on 7/23/10 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:12 pm to Moustache
quote:
Plus, if Lee was done mentally, he would've freaking quit and went to Sam Houston St, but he didn't.
I was talkinga bout Lee not Jefferson, regardless...I didnt say he was whiny quitter and a pussy. I think it shows a lot that he chose to stay and stick it out at LSU. I meant hes done mentally with respect to the incredible axiety hes going to face before taking every throw. Things in his head that he is unable to control and NOT help but think about. That and the 90,000 boos everytime he throws the ball, tough for ANYONE to ignore and maintain focus.
Like I said, hes a talented guy and I have no problem with him personally. I just think hes too worried about not fricking up then just playing. EVERYTIME LSU is backed in their own endzone you dont think the only thing on his mind will be "dont throw a pick, dont throw a pick"?
This post was edited on 7/23/10 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:13 pm to Moustache
quote:
almost coddle to Jefferson
Who is doing this? I don't see it. Most think both our QBs suck. Jefferson gets plenty of criticism. I'm not sure which board you're reading.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:14 pm to WelcomeToDeathValley
quote:
No, instead Crowton would run all of his receivers deep when our OL couldn't hold a block for more than three seconds. In addition, there would be no drop off route to a RB or TE. By the time WR's made their break, Jefferson is running for his life.
Well had he made his reads, and not stared down the #1 target the whole play, Jefferson would not have taken so many sacks. I have no idea why he never threw it to Dickson. Dickson found holes in the zone and sat in them, yet he was never looked at.
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:24 pm to Moustache
quote:
15 yds per game does not pull this team out of the 90s in rankings.
It isn't 15 yards. If you take the rushing average in 2008 (166/game) and apply the difference (2009 was 122/game, so the difference is 44) to the 2009 offense, then 2009's offense is only 15 yds/game less than 2008. We'd be ranked about 10 spots below the 2008 offense. This is not surprising considering how much we were trailing in 2008 and having to push.
quote:
The threat of the pass can open up the run too you know. If a team never has to switch out of their 4-3 or 3-4 to a nickel package, then the run will be ineffective.
Except this didn't happen. Teams never played more than 6 or 7 in the box against LSU in 2009. In 2008, teams consistently played 8 in the box because 1) our rushing game was good and 2) they wanted Lee to throw.
Are you honestly arguing that it's easier to pass against 4-5 DBs than against 3 DBs?
In 2009, Jefferson had 22 passes over 25 yards in 296 attempts, that's roughly one deep completion in every 13 attempts
In 2008, Lee had 18 passes over 25 yards in 269 attempts, that's roughly one deep completion in every 15 attempts.
Advantage: Jefferson
Jefferson had 17 TDs in 296 attempts which is one TD for every 17 attempts
Lee had 14 TDs in 269 attempts which one TD in every 19 attempts
Advantage: Jefferson
Jefferson had 7 Ints in 296 attempts which is one Int every 42 attempts
Lee had 16 Ints in 269 attempts which is one Int in every 17 attempts
Advantage: Jefferson
Jefferson completed 59% of his passes
Lee completed 51% of his passes
Advantage: Jefferson
In 2009, Jefferson was sacked 35 times in 296 attempts, thats one sack for every 8 attempts
In 2008, Lee was sacked 8 times in 269 attempts, thats one sack for every 33 attempts.
Advantage: Lee
In 2009, Jefferson had 171 rushing and 1 rushing TD
In 2008, Lee had -97 yards rushing and no TDs
Advantage: Jefferson
Edited to correct Lee's incorrect sack total.
This post was edited on 7/23/10 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 7/23/10 at 4:25 pm to Moustache
quote:
I'm not saying he should start, but I wouldn't let the job be Jefferson's the whole year either until one of them earns it.
We are in agreement here.
Anybody who thinks neither can improve and that they will "NEVER be SEC QBs" is pretty retarded.
Page 2 of 5
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News