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Started By
Message
re: Fair or not, the real issue with Les Miles....
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:32 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:32 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
quote:
Well, he's winning 80% of his games, 80% of his bowl games, 100% of his BCS bowl games, won the west 40% of the time, been ranked in the top 5 60% of the time, nationally ranked 80% of the time, and winning 100% of his NC games.
You really are not getting the point of my post are you?
So let me break it down for you, ok?
If Houston Nutt took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Steve Spurrier took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Tommy Tubberville took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Joe Paterno took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Mark Richt took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Mike Leach took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
If Sylvester Croom took over in 2005, could he have as much as success in 2005, 2006, and 2007 if not better, as we had?
Of these coaches only two have ever won an NC and they are not coming here.
And why is JoePa on this list, do you really think he's been holding on at the state college for 60 years just waiting on the opportunity to come to LSU?
We had a chance to hire Spurrier (and Mack Brown) back in the 80's but they were unproven!
If you don't like Miles you'd hate Mike Leach!
Tubby, Richt, really? They are the epitome of doing less with more.
And finally, Sylvester Croom, Wow! Is that how dumb we are, we'd trade a guy with a .780 winning percentage and an NC for a career loser.
Similar situation (Miles / Croom)
Miles takes over the worst team in the B12, turns it around and beats the B12 Giants, gets a better job (LSU) and leaves behind a butt load of talent and one of his assistants to continue success.
Croom takes over the worst team in the SEC, it remained the worst team in the SEC he gets fired and despite a few signs of distant hope it remains the worst team in the SEC.
Results matter, Miles’ results for the last two years are not up to LSU or his own standards and I am confident he will correct, since he has a PROVEN track record that dates back to long before he arrived in Baton Rouge.
Bottom line folks, give the man a chance, he has earned it in his career and at LSU. If it doesn’t turn around then he will not be around but the incessant badgering IS not helpful and will not help anything. Many think, and I agree, that you could actually harm recruiting, which would harm the program long after Les is gone.
If you love LSU, love it now. Stop the badgering and hope for the best.
Finally, ask yourself this question, do I want to be right about Miles MORE than I want to LSU to succeed? Because truth be told, things COULD get a LOT worse before they get better, if we change coaches.
2
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:38 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
So let me break it down for you, ok?
All of what you said might be true or none of it might be true cause it's ALL conjecture on your part, but we know that ALL of this IS true:
quote:
Well, he's winning 80% of his games, 80% of his bowl games, 100% of his BCS bowl games, won the west 40% of the time, been ranked in the top 5 60% of the time, nationally ranked 80% of the time, and winning 100% of his NC games.
If it's all the same to you, I'll take my fact over your conjecture.
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:44 pm to cj2002
quote:
This is one of the Weakest post I have ever read on this board.
cj2002
So you call me out for being the weakest post you have ever read on this board. Wow. I'm not sure if I take that as a compliment or an insult.
The argument "winning with Saban talent" is so f--king old it's ridiculous. The fact is that...HE WON as opposed to the other alternative.
LSU won the National Championship with a mix of Miles recruits and Saban's recruits.
I will agree with Miles's lack of player development abilities. He is not a hands on coach like Saban and let's his coordinators and position coaches do the grunt work. This does not seem to be working very effectively and could be his downfall.
The point of my response to this post is to ease your mind that Miles will most likely (70%) not be coaching at LSU in 2011. LSU could very well end next season with a 7 or 8 win campaign. This will assure his buyout and dismissal.
Do yourself a favor. Pull against LSU. Hope they lose. Rejoice in a subpar recruiting class by LSU standards and start looking at available coaches who will die at the chance of coaching at this great university with supportive fans such as yourself with realistic expectations. Like the ones in my post. (see below, did I miss anything?)
*Win or compete in the SEC Championship every year.
*Have no less than a top 3 Recruiting Class every year
*Win a National Championship every 2 or 3 years
*Speak so articulantly that you would think he is a master of all languages.
*Never, and I mean NEVER, have a single game/clock management issue in any game
*NEVER lose to Nick Saban
*Play highly touted freshman no matter what they do in practice
*Hire and keep the top coordinators in the country and both the Offense and Defense ranked no lower than 5th in the country.
*Develop every player to achieve their full potential which is perfect execution on every play.
*Demand that if any penalties for offsides, false starts, personal fouls should ever happen with any player they will be scolded and benched for the remainder of the game.
*Eliminate cyclical down years. The program will compete continually at a National level and any bowl game other than a BCS game will be considered a failure.
This post was edited on 1/30/10 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:47 pm to lsusa
quote:
No matter what Les Miles does, he will always be compared to Nick Saban.
The simple moral of the story...same thing happened to Zook!
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:55 pm to joebiggin1102
quote:
The simple moral of the story...same thing happened to Zook!
Yes but Zook NEVER won more than 8 games. He was 8-5, 8-5, 7-4 @ Florida. Never won a bowl game, never won a championship!
Please do not compare Ron Zook to Les Miles, Zook could not wear Miles' jock strap!
Posted on 1/30/10 at 9:57 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
We will see how long those percentages stay up.
Whatever.
This post was edited on 1/30/10 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 1/30/10 at 10:16 pm to Lonnie4LSU
this thread bites.
Posted on 1/30/10 at 11:05 pm to timlan2057
quote:
The real issue with Les Miles is that the he will be gone at the end of next year because there is no way with Jordan Jefferson at QB, LSU will win more than 7 to 8 games. The powers that be (TAF) will simply declare that unacceptable and his contract will be bought out and he will be fired as LSU's Head Coach. Who LSU will hire as his replacement is anybody's guess.
I only hope that whoever the new hire is will:
*Win or compete in the SEC Championship every year.
*Have no less than a top 3 Recruiting Class every year
*Win a National Championship every 2 or 3 years
*Speak so articulantly that you would think he is a master of all languages.
*Never, and I mean NEVER, have a single game/clock management issue in any game
*NEVER lose to Nick Saban
*Play highly touted freshman no matter what they do in practice
*Hire and keep the top coordinators in the country and both the Offense and Defense ranked no lower than 5th in the country.
*Develop every player to achive their full potential which is perfect execution on every play.
*Demand that if any penalties for offsides, false starts, personal fouls should ever happen with any player they will be scolded and benched for the remainder of the game.
*Eliminate cyclical down years. The program will compete continually at a National level and any bowl game other than a BCS game will be considered a failure.
My sarcasm meter is working.
I'm waiting for someone to respond to this straight-up.
It can't be serious.
Posted on 1/30/10 at 11:06 pm to SouthernMan
quote:
Yes but Zook NEVER won more than 8 games. He was 8-5, 8-5, 7-4 @ Florida. Never won a bowl game, never won a championship! Please do not compare Ron Zook to Les Miles, Zook could not wear Miles' jock strap!
Who did LSU beat in the last 2 years and how did they play in those games? Did LSU play up to their talent level or even close in those games? The only game that they showed up and played 60 minutes in the last 2 years was against GT in the bowl game. That's it. Every win was against a crappy team and even those wins were mostly by the skin of their teeth.
Posted on 1/30/10 at 11:47 pm to coolmonk
quote:
Every win was against a crappy team
The LSU SOS was rated like #13 by the BCS and 4 of the LSU wins this season came over SEC teams who went to bowls and won their bowl games.
So, I think your "crappy team" comment is just a tad over the top, but each to our own.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 12:23 am to lsusa
quote:
Les Miles is the George Bush of college football
there is no coach that i know that is that incompetent
Posted on 1/31/10 at 12:38 am to lsusa
quote:
the fact is, we don't need to worry about whether or not Miles is a better coach that Saban,
Wrong. We compete with Saban every year in the SEC West. We need somebody at least as good as he is.
quote:
We need to worry about whether or not Miles is the best coach for LSU
If he's not at least as good as the coach for every other SEC West team, then that answers this question. We need the best, period.
quote:
the fact is most knowledgable football fans around the country currently hold a negative view of Miles.
Knowledgeable or not, this is the view most fans and others hold. A good coach simply does not continue to make the same boneheaded mistakes over and over again that Miles makes. A great coach (i.e. any coach who deserves to be paid what Miles is being paid) doesn't make that kind of mistake even once.
quote:
there seem to be two vocal camps of love and hate for Les Miles, and both sides seem to ignore any evidence contrary to their point of view.
Disagree. I don't think there's any significant "love" camp for Miles any more. There is a segment of the fan base that is still willing to give him a chance and therefore opposes negativism about him, but I don't think even 1% of the fan base still thinks he's a $4 million a year coach, or one of the top coaches in the country.
Another point I disagree with is that both camps refuse to consider evidence supporting the other side. Both camps seem to recognize this. Even his supporters know he sucks at clock and game management and hiring assistants. Even his critics acknowledge that with elite assistants he can win. I don't think anyone's really being unreasonable about him. It's really more of a moral divide than a divide over opinions of his ability. There are some who simply think it's wrong to fire somebody unless he just totally fricks up. The others think it's OK to fire somebody any time they're not delivering what they're being paid to deliver.
If every LSU fan had to rank the SEC's top 2 coaches, I don't think a single one, if all were being honest, would rank him there. Less than 20% would have him in the top 3. Less than half would have him in the top 5.
Nobody really disputes the well-established fact that he is simply not an elite coach, and most agree that he is a fairly good coach. The only real dispute is over the morality of firing him for that.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 12:56 am to teeMike
quote:
*Win or compete in the SEC Championship every year.
Typical idiotic shitty coach apologist hyperbole. You don't have to play in the SEC championship every year. You DO have to go over .500 in the SEC, though.
quote:
*Have no less than a top 3 Recruiting Class every year
Not many are complaining about his recruiting class rankings. Many do complain that he doesn't do much with these highly ranked classes, though.
quote:
*Win a National Championship every 2 or 3 years
More stupidity. Nobody expects that. We do, however, expect to win more than half our SEC games consistently.
quote:
*Speak so articulantly that you would think he is a master of all languages.
You give away your silly bias with this one. Nobody cares about this. Winning is all that matters.
quote:
*Never, and I mean NEVER, have a single game/clock management issue in any game
No, you can have one every once in a while, but rarely. Not multiple times every year, though. And not the truly ridiculously outrageous ones that Miles seems to deliver so consistently.
quote:
*NEVER lose to Nick Saban
No, you can lose to Nick Saban. It's not a good idea to do it every year in spite of having superior talent, but it is permissible on a sometime basis.
quote:
*Play highly touted freshman no matter what they do in practice
No, just don't leave a major playmaker who proves himself in gams on the bench while the #112 offense in the country demonstrates that it couldn't be any worse.
quote:
*Hire and keep the top coordinators in the country and both the Offense and Defense ranked no lower than 5th in the country.
No, outside the top 5 isn't a firing offense. Outside the top 111...
quote:
*Develop every player to achieve their full potential which is perfect execution on every play.
No, but 5 straight top 15 classes ought to finish in the top 25 pretty much every year and in the top 15 at least once every two years.
quote:
*Demand that if any penalties for offsides, false starts, personal fouls should ever happen with any player they will be scolded and benched for the remainder of the game.
Scolded, maybe, but really we just don't want to lose multiple games every year because of an excess of these.
quote:
*Eliminate cyclical down years. The program will compete continually at a National level and any bowl game other than a BCS game will be considered a failure.
Cyclical down years, if they even exist, are a matter of degree. If your down year is only finishing top 15 instead of top 5, and if they only happen once every three or four years, then they're OK. If they are multiple years in a row, and they include 8-5 seasons followed by 9-4 seasons, and at least five of the nine losses over that time are to teams we should beat but just get outcoached in, then that's a problem.
quote:
I will agree with Miles's lack of player development abilities. He is not a hands on coach like Saban and let's his coordinators and position coaches do the grunt work. This does not seem to be working very effectively and could be his downfall.
It's funny how even his biggest apologists are forced to admit this. Does ANYBODY think this guy will succeed at LSU? If they're being honest, I doubt it.
quote:
Miles will most likely (70%) not be coaching at LSU in 2011. LSU could very well end next season with a 7 or 8 win campaign. This will assure his buyout and dismissal.
I think 100% of LSU fans agree with this. Why, then, do we wait another year?
Essentially, your post demonstrates one of the more ridiculous and stupid arguments of the shitty coach apologists. The fallacy? That there's no middle ground between winning the NC every year and going .500 in the SEC. People like you could see us go 0-12 and say "well, we can't win EVERY game" and think we should keep him. Stupid, and completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 12:57 am to cj2002
quote:
Miles is a fool. He won early with the talent that Saban brought in and groomed. Those players had the right mind set and the skills to play in the SEC. Miles can recurit the players with the skills, but he cant finish the job after that. Look back since he had gotten here and prove that wrong.
he won the BCSNC in 2007. It was his third season. Many of the guys inthe system ha very little experience as anything under Saban.
Also the ending of the PSU game was not a frick up. We got screwed by the ref not doing his job. If you want to be upset about the inept offense earlier in the game that is completely fine though. There was plenty of blame to go around in that game though.
Also miles has not coached a bad game against Saban. This head to head dominance percieved by people is just stupid. It has taken a completely fricked up QB and devastating injuries for Bama to just put us away the last two years.
It will all get better. We have a lot of experienced guys coming back next year in every unit. Hopefully a more experienced QB and better OL play will lead to more successful offense next year. Crowton had a succesful offense in 2007 and there is no reason we shouldn't believe that things can improve. I think the defense will only get better in year two with Chavis.
Also firing Miles after next year will hurt LSU for a long time because we would lose a big time recruiting class that builds championships teams. So I think it is stupid to be negative and want him to fail because that is just not an option any tiger would really want.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:01 am to SouthernMan
quote:
Bottom line folks, give the man a chance
He got his chance. He fricked up a perfect situation and went 8-5 in 2008, and then he was given a chance to correct the frickup that he made. He blew it. In any job in America other than head football coach at LSU, he would already have been fired.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:03 am to SouthernMan
quote:
things COULD get a LOT worse before they get better, if we change coaches.
They could, but they might not. If we don't change coaches, they 100% definitely will. LSU will never make it back to the elite under Les Miles.
So the only real choice is do we MAYBE suck, or do we DEFINITELY suck? You make the call.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:05 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:
but I don't think even 1% of the fan base still thinks he's a $4 million a year coach, or one of the top coaches in the country.
You'd be very wrong. his accomplishments have very well earned him his 3.5M, so I say we go ahead and give him the raise.
quote:
Even his supporters know he sucks at clock and game management and hiring assistants.
Again, you are wrong. The issue at Ole Miss was a clock issue but it is NOT indicative of his WHOLE CAREER and several of the other instances people use against him are just plain false. (i.e. Penn State, Auburn 07, etc...)
Hiring assistants is one of his strengths; Gundy, Pelini, Porter, Gonzales, Wilson, Yanowski, Haley, Chavis, Moffitt, etc...
All you've got against him is the Co-DC mistake that was corrected after just one year and people have turned on Crowton. Crowton was considered a genius and I personally will not be surprised if he is considered that again after this year...
Do I think he's a top three SEC coach, yes and I also think that makes him top three nationally because I think the best three coaches and programs are in the SEC.
Right now he is in third place but he could still be on top.
More importantly, the other two ARE NOT coming to Baton Rouge so firing Miles is PURE STUPIDITY!!
PURE STUPIDITY!!!
Not just morally wrong but totally wrong, did I mention PURE STUPIDITY!!!
This post was edited on 1/31/10 at 1:06 am
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:06 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
he's winning 80% of his games, 80% of his bowl games, 100% of his BCS bowl games, won the west 40% of the time, been ranked in the top 5 60% of the time, nationally ranked 80% of the time, and winning 100% of his NC games.
So, I would have to say that overall he's don't pretty dang good.
He is worse in every single one of those respects than Larry Coker was at Miami. So, if nothing else, we should fire Miles and hire Coker. At least we'd be guaranteed a better coach than we have now. Is Coker good enough for us? If not, then Miles sure isn't.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:09 am to Cornholio
quote:
Yea, morons just find their way into coaching major D1 programs all time. Just shut up.
Well, they do. Curley Hallman? I'd bet $1000 a point over/under 100 on any IQ test he took. I'd take the under, of course.
Posted on 1/31/10 at 1:10 am to KingwoodLsuFan
quote:
Les Miles is the George Bush of college football
George Bush was a better president than Les Miles is a football coach.
And I think George Bush was the worst president in history.
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