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Message
re: Eric Reid's quote
Posted on 6/2/11 at 9:48 pm to deuce985
Posted on 6/2/11 at 9:48 pm to deuce985
quote:
I know more about the situation than you, I'm sure. I had friends on the Football team and I know exactly how they get treated. You're only seeing what you want to see and not the facts.
I'm also friends with a guy that used to be on the team and it's absurd how well they are treated. The insane amount of per diem money they get for food at away games, and the different perks they get, including but not limited to mopeds and $300 dollar headphones, is ridiculous.
As someone else said, they don't HAVE to play football. Another good point someone mentioned is that a lot of salespeople make ridiculous amounts of money for their companies but only see small commission on it.
0
Posted on 6/2/11 at 10:07 pm to The_Pistol
quote:
Yes. And in the process, I'd like people to be free to earn market rates for their hard work and talents.
They already do. See the value of a scholarship to LSU and compare it to a school like Vandy.
This post was edited on 6/2/11 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 6/2/11 at 10:23 pm to STEVED00
quote:
I hate it when I hear football players say they are struggling to make ends meet. WHY?? EVERYTHING IS PAID FOR?? School, tutors, clothes, food, housing = FREE.
Let's be real here. And I'm not judging because Lord knows I lived this life style in college myself, but they need more money for booze, cover charges, tattoos, pot, etc... If their priorities are in order, none of them can't meet their basic needs. It's their wants that cause the budgeting problems. And I do understand that, but for all the amazing awards and glories available to college athletes in general--and football players specifically--there are some sacrifices that go along with them as well. Perhaps getting shite-housed or blowing trees 5 nights a week should be part of those.
And for the "they make millions for the school...blah,blah, blah" crowd, my alma mater West Monroe's football teams puts a lot of fannies in their $10 seats 7-10 Friday nights a year. How much should those guys get paid? They are generating the money, are they not? How bout the 9-10 year old All-Star teams that pack a baseball complex a couple of summer weekends? Shouldn't they get their take? A line has to be drawn. And I don't see how it can be drawn anywhere other than where it currently is.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 10:31 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Let's be real here. And I'm not judging because Lord knows I lived this life style in college myself, but they need more money for booze, cover charges, tattoos, pot, etc... If their priorities are in order, none of them can't meet their basic needs. It's their wants that cause the budgeting problems. And I do understand that, but for all the amazing awards and glories available to college athletes in general--and football players specifically--there are some sacrifices that go along with them as well. Perhaps getting shite-housed or blowing trees 5 nights a week should be part of those.
See I agree with this 100%.
I think that their are players (a minority amount) who do actually have honest need for some money to get some extra food or clothing or whatnot. That said majority most likely want the money for their wants not needs
Posted on 6/2/11 at 10:55 pm to TigersNYC
I spent $400 last semester on fast food, video games, alcohol, internet, etc. I never felt like I was hurting for cash either. I guess athletes live a different life than I do though 
This post was edited on 6/2/11 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 6/2/11 at 11:22 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
George, I used to feel that athletes were already paid enough, but the more I think about it, the more I believe they should be given an additional stipend. I will answer your questions:
I do not think mid-majors will be able to afford it and I do not think that all of the BCS schools could afford it either. That being said, this question does not address the heart of the matter - Whether athletes should be paid above and beyond their current benefits? Just because it is not feasible does not mean it should not happen.
I think the players should, in a perfect world, be paid what graduate students are paid based on a 20 hour work week. By far the best argument here is that graduate students are paid for their research because it is assumed that the work required to complete the graduate programs is too intensive for the student to have another job. I sincerely believe that football is as intensive, if not more, than a graduate program. Earlier in the thread you stated that these are two separate matters, but I believe they address the same issue and are very similar in principal.
All players should be paid the same. If they are on the team, it is assumed they are all working equally as hard. They are all full-time students and they all attend the same practices and meetings.
My argument is not that the student athletes are manipulated like some imply. That happens all the way down to the high school level in some sports and I think it is too difficult to address.
Where I have the issue is that, on top of being a full-time student, these athletes must input a tremendous amount work outside of the typical student. If I have a 3.9 high school GPA and a 33 on the ACT, I will probably get a full ride to LSU because I am outstanding in my field. If I am a 5 star QB, I too will get a full ride to LSU because I am outstanding in my field. The difference is that one of these will have AT LEAST 30 extra hours a week to work as he sees fit, while the other will be "working" pro-bono.
quote:
1. How do you think mid-major Divison 1-A programs would financially be able to pay players and stay on a level playing field with BCS schools?
I do not think mid-majors will be able to afford it and I do not think that all of the BCS schools could afford it either. That being said, this question does not address the heart of the matter - Whether athletes should be paid above and beyond their current benefits? Just because it is not feasible does not mean it should not happen.
quote:
2. How much should the players be paid? They already make 35K a year. So how much more?
I think the players should, in a perfect world, be paid what graduate students are paid based on a 20 hour work week. By far the best argument here is that graduate students are paid for their research because it is assumed that the work required to complete the graduate programs is too intensive for the student to have another job. I sincerely believe that football is as intensive, if not more, than a graduate program. Earlier in the thread you stated that these are two separate matters, but I believe they address the same issue and are very similar in principal.
quote:
3. Should a second string Offensive Lineman make the same as a star running back? Why or why not?
All players should be paid the same. If they are on the team, it is assumed they are all working equally as hard. They are all full-time students and they all attend the same practices and meetings.
My argument is not that the student athletes are manipulated like some imply. That happens all the way down to the high school level in some sports and I think it is too difficult to address.
Where I have the issue is that, on top of being a full-time student, these athletes must input a tremendous amount work outside of the typical student. If I have a 3.9 high school GPA and a 33 on the ACT, I will probably get a full ride to LSU because I am outstanding in my field. If I am a 5 star QB, I too will get a full ride to LSU because I am outstanding in my field. The difference is that one of these will have AT LEAST 30 extra hours a week to work as he sees fit, while the other will be "working" pro-bono.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:13 am to slackster
What about the idea that paying them kills their amateur status? Thus they could hire agents, form unions, and drive salaries up to a point of bankruptcy ... for potentially an athletic department or even the NCAA itself. How would you stop that? There are too many problems, in my opinion, all across the board.
This post was edited on 6/3/11 at 12:23 am
Posted on 6/3/11 at 1:09 am to Tigercoop40
Here's my 2 cents...
HOW TO PAY ATHLETES
There should be a setup kinda like the BCS does for breaking down its bowl revenue.
* Athletes should only be able to be paid through product endorsement deals, likeness usage (video games), etc...
* The money will be paid into a general fund from which the player will receive a set percentage - somewhere between 20-25% seems fair (An endorsement deal for any national product is going to fetch 25,000 minimum and the sky's the limit).
* The rest of the money from ALL the paying deals goes into an account from which 50-60% is used for equally divided monthly payouts available to all individuals with full athletic scholarships during the regular school year (unless they say they don't want their share).
* The remaining 15-30% can be used to assist athletes and/or their families who are experiencing extreme hardship. The application and evaluation process would be overseen by a panel for approval.
* Players would also be allowed a maximum of four (4) paid local promotions, endorsements and "celebrity guest appearances" per month while school is in session. For these, the player is allowed to receive a MAXIMUM of $2000/month TOTAL in compensation (more than enough to cover car payments, clothing, steak dinners, etc). The player is allowed to keep all money earned in this manner. These appearances/endorsements must be arranged through the school's compliance office and are subject to their approval (contract must be made with school, payment made to school - school disburses payment to player). All would be made public record.
What do y'all think?
ETA:
wasn't satisfied with amount of bold previously used
HOW TO PAY ATHLETES
There should be a setup kinda like the BCS does for breaking down its bowl revenue.
* Athletes should only be able to be paid through product endorsement deals, likeness usage (video games), etc...
* The money will be paid into a general fund from which the player will receive a set percentage - somewhere between 20-25% seems fair (An endorsement deal for any national product is going to fetch 25,000 minimum and the sky's the limit).
* The rest of the money from ALL the paying deals goes into an account from which 50-60% is used for equally divided monthly payouts available to all individuals with full athletic scholarships during the regular school year (unless they say they don't want their share).
* The remaining 15-30% can be used to assist athletes and/or their families who are experiencing extreme hardship. The application and evaluation process would be overseen by a panel for approval.
* Players would also be allowed a maximum of four (4) paid local promotions, endorsements and "celebrity guest appearances" per month while school is in session. For these, the player is allowed to receive a MAXIMUM of $2000/month TOTAL in compensation (more than enough to cover car payments, clothing, steak dinners, etc). The player is allowed to keep all money earned in this manner. These appearances/endorsements must be arranged through the school's compliance office and are subject to their approval (contract must be made with school, payment made to school - school disburses payment to player). All would be made public record.
What do y'all think?
ETA:
wasn't satisfied with amount of bold previously used
This post was edited on 6/3/11 at 1:21 am
Posted on 6/3/11 at 1:12 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
There are too many problems, in my opinion, all across the board.
I agree that the implementation would be nearly impossible. However, I think that is a different conversation than whether or not they SHOULD be paid more than just their scholarships. IMO, they should be paid the equivalent of a graduate's research stipend. How they would go about doing this is the NCAA's prerogative.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 1:17 am to slackster
Dang when I asked this question I didn't think it would bring up this big of a debate
Posted on 6/3/11 at 8:49 am to yurintroubl
quote:
yurintroubl
I could go for something like that. I am sure it was implied, but all of that income would/should be treated like ordinary income for the average Joe and subject to FICA and income taxes.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 10:03 am to King Joey
quote:
Name me one athlete at any NCAA program who is prohibited from walking away and making as much money as he can through any means legal to anyone else?
Maurice Clarett.
IF the NCAA were legally recognized as what it is, a profitable business, there would be obvious antitrust issues with the NCAA & NFL. But the way the NCAA operates, it's allowed because their players are not employees.
quote:
No NCAA rules apply to anyone who doesn't WANT to be an NCAA athlete. How is this exploitative or contrary to the free market?
No, but NCAA rules do apply to someone who hasn't decided to become an NCAA athlete. Once you've entered a contract with another agent or league, the NCAA rules you ineligible. If it were a free market, young athletes would be free to hire representation. The NCAA's stance would be just fine if there were viable alternatives to that player. So why isn't there a farm club or viable alternative to the NCAA professional preparation route? The NCAA/NFL have cornered the market and forced out competitors with monopolistic practice. Free market? Maybe. Exploitative? Yes.
quote:
You want to let the players exercise all of their free market powers, but bind the hands of anyone who organizes and produces the products?
The only thing I want to "bind" is the ability of the NCAA to bar players from having professional representation. You know, like the coaches have.
quote:
If the NCAA's deal was such a bad one, then how come they have hundreds of thousands of people every year vying for an opportunity to take that deal?
Culture, tradition and lack of other options. In football, there is no professional farm system. This is due to the aforementioned monopolistic practice of the NCAA & NFL. As a young high-school recruit, being an "amateur" is the only available path to becoming a pro.
quote:
And please stop embarassing yourself with this idiotic "the laws prevent anyone who could play college sports to work for anyone else or earn money from any other source!" schtick. They are perfectly free to make money, and they are perfectly free to make money playing sports.
The law prevents an agent from attempting to sign an amateur athlete under the guise of breach of contract. Even though the NCAA hides their monopolistic practice behind the ruse of amateurism, it doesn't prevent the state from declaring that there is indeed a contract between the school and the player. This would be like Louisiana disallowing recruiters of any out-of-state company to recruit LSU students because those students have a "contract" with the state.
This is plain and simple. The state wants to protect their cheap labor pool and the NCAA's prilivileged legal status, so they've banned professional agents from letting student athletes know their true market value.
Louisiana Law
quote:
...there are a few groups out there who have figured out how to organize and produce those sporting events in a highly profitable manner. Among those are the NFL, MLB, NBA and NCAA. All of them compete with other organizations who produce sporting events for money, and all of them compete very successfullly with them.
This is partially true. MLB actually operates under a unique antitrust exemption that makes it virtually impossible to start a competing league.
Is baseball special?
quote:
Anybody who does not want to participate in sporting events according to the rules of those organizations is free to choose any of the other competing ones (just as Hershel Walker and Billy Cannon did). So far, it turns out that the best deals for the best players are almost always with these organizations, as reflected by the truest of free market indicators: the choice of the participants.
Again, this is only partially true. The reality is that there aren't any viable competitors because of the NCAA/NFL monopolistic practices. Furthermore, state law has banned young athletes from making a fully informed decision because they've barred them from professional representation. Even if agents were allowed to openly inform the young athletes of their career options, they don't want to risk being banned from the only game in town.
Yes, you are correct that kids routinely choose to go the route of the "scholar-athlete", much in the same way that cattle routinely choose to enter the slaughterhouse.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 10:04 am to slackster
quote:
Just because it is not feasible does not mean it should not happen.
No, that is exactly what it means. The logistics of it is just as much a reason why it shouldn't happen as the morality of it.
Someone earlier suggested $750/month. Well, for 85 scholarship players for 12 months, that's $765,000 per school. For just football players. Multiply that by the 120 BCS schools, and that's $91.8 million. Again, for just football. Who's picking up that tab?
Posted on 6/3/11 at 10:24 am to Hot Carl
The best thing I read in this whole debate is someone mentioned the difference between "WANTS" and "NEEDS"....
They have EVERYTHING they need on a full ride. Food, home, tuition, books, facilities at their disposal 24/7, tudors, etc.
The rest of the shite is not a responsibility of the university to provide.
How bout we hold the parents responsible for the rest? WTF is wrong with all of you agreeing that the deadbeats get even more taken care of?
How bout this...play as a walk on and then you are free to go get a job. But now you have to pay for everything else and you are 100k in debt when you leave the school...
THey are getting paid, its called a scholarship and its worth MILLIONS!!
We are making money for this site by being here, should we get a cut?
Grow a pair boys and quit being liberal bitches.
THEY ARE FREE TO QUIT AND PAY THEIR OWN WAY IMMEDIATELY.
They have EVERYTHING they need on a full ride. Food, home, tuition, books, facilities at their disposal 24/7, tudors, etc.
The rest of the shite is not a responsibility of the university to provide.
How bout we hold the parents responsible for the rest? WTF is wrong with all of you agreeing that the deadbeats get even more taken care of?
How bout this...play as a walk on and then you are free to go get a job. But now you have to pay for everything else and you are 100k in debt when you leave the school...
THey are getting paid, its called a scholarship and its worth MILLIONS!!
We are making money for this site by being here, should we get a cut?
Grow a pair boys and quit being liberal bitches.
THEY ARE FREE TO QUIT AND PAY THEIR OWN WAY IMMEDIATELY.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 10:40 am to the LSUSaint
quote:
WTF is wrong with all of you agreeing that the deadbeats get even more taken care of?
Now we know what you think of the players. You don't have any clue how hard those deadbeats work.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 10:55 am to The_Pistol
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF is wrong with all of you agreeing that the deadbeats get even more taken care of?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now we know what you think of the players. You don't have any clue how hard those deadbeats work.
+1,000,000
Those deadbeats sweat and bleed equal to the stars, but their pat on the back is not near as nice.
This debate has really fleshed out from the wise to the moronic. Some of you have a good understanding while some of you know everything based upon a few beers with -insert name-.
Glad the NCAA is not relying on TD to determine anything.
Lastly, I think Les Miles has a better fix on the pulse of college football than some of you wise guys (check that, ALL of us).
This post was edited on 6/3/11 at 10:57 am
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:27 am to The_Pistol
quote:
Now we know what you think of the players. You don't have any clue how hard those deadbeats work.
Talking about their players parents!!!!!! They need to step up and make sure any WANTS are met...not the universities!!!
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:32 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
+1,000,000
Those deadbeats sweat and bleed equal to the stars, but their pat on the back is not near as nice.
This debate has really fleshed out from the wise to the moronic. Some of you have a good understanding while some of you know everything based upon a few beers with -insert name-.
Glad the NCAA is not relying on TD to determine anything.
Lastly, I think Les Miles has a better fix on the pulse of college football than some of you wise guys (check that, ALL of us).
AGAIN! Read my post carefully. The university shouldn't have to provide for extra WANTS of a player who is getting a million dollar education.
The parents should provide the extras for their own child and if they dont then I think they are the deadbeats..
I know the athletes are hard working young students and give alot in RETURN for what they are given for free.
Please understand, by saying "taking care of deadbeats" I'm referring to the university having to "take care" of a parents responsibility...their childs well being!
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:10 pm to the LSUSaint
quote:
AGAIN! Read my post carefully. The university shouldn't have to provide for extra WANTS of a player who is getting a million dollar education.
The parents should provide the extras for their own child and if they dont then I think they are the deadbeats..
I know the athletes are hard working young students and give alot in RETURN for what they are given for free.
Please understand, by saying "taking care of deadbeats" I'm referring to the university having to "take care" of a parents responsibility...their childs well being!
fair enough....
but, my roommate's parents were hard working poverty level (mom in a textile mill & dad was disabled) and when his sweats weren't warm enough for winter, my folks bought him a good coat.
How 'bout dem apples? AND, he wasn't the only one under similar circumstances.
That is why I advocate paying players based upon true economic NEED. The QB who drove up in a brand new Vette didn't need it.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:15 pm to the LSUSaint
quote:
the LSUSaint
So you're entirely discounting the fact that those players work very hard and contribute to a huge revenue stream for the NCAA, the university and professional coaches?
The arguments in this thread aren't about pandering to and spoiling kids. This is about allowing players to benefit from their talents and their hard work. Yes, they receive scholarships, but the value of that scholarship is well below the fair market value of their services. How do I know this? Look at the money spent by athletic departments building palatial locker rooms. Look at the river of dirty money flowing in the high-school recruitment circles. Look at the billions of dollars made by the NCAA in television contracts. Look at the millions of dollars paid to coaches.
The athletes are getting fleeced because they don't know any better. They risk life and limb solely for the honor of representing their university and in some cases a chance at future riches. The least the institution could do for them is allow them to profit by selling some merchandise that they own and earned or allow them to hire representation. But the NCAA can't have that. Not because they're heartless, greedy bastards, but because they know that if the ruse of amateurism is unmasked, their organization cannot operate under the antitrust laws that we have in this country. It will cease to exist.
So we have a contradiction. Our education system must do everything they can to keep their players from becoming educated about their rights and their true worth. Lest the system be replaced by an honest, open, professional farm league.
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