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re: WTF--House votes 419-3 on new Russia sanctions bill???

Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:48 pm to
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
38434 posts
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:48 pm to
It isn't appeasement, it's political reality. What do sanctions accomplish? Seriously, our politicians say we look weak if we do nothing, but do we not understand the world simultaneously laughs at us and loses what miniscule credibility we have left because of our hypocrisy? I would argue that imposing and enforcing sanctions against an enemy for something that we ourselves blithely do damages our credibility worse than doing nothing.

We invaded Iraq in 2002, an act Kofi Annan deemed illegal and in contravention of the UN Charter, as we did not have a Security Council authorization. Did that stop us? Hell no. Would sanctions have stopped us? Hell no. Our ruling elite wanted war and they got it.

You keep talking about accountability for our actions. There is no accountability for us, as we are the world's superpower. There is accountability only for those who aren't our allies. We should not be imposing sanctions on countries for the same kinds of acts we've committed and not been sanctioned for simply because we rule the world.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 7/25/17 at 6:58 pm to
quote:

It isn't appeasement, it's political reality. What do sanctions accomplish? Seriously, our politicians say we look weak if we do nothing, but do we not understand the world simultaneously laughs at us and loses what miniscule credibility we have left because of our hypocrisy? I would argue that imposing and enforcing sanctions against an enemy for something that we ourselves blithely do damages our credibility worse than doing nothing.


It is appeasement. I asked you before what the distinction between advocating inaction toward Russian aggressions, hostilities, and human rights violations is from appeasement. You still haven't answered.

The thing you aren't grasping is that this entire cyber attack has motivations from the sanctions. Which in fact signals they did their job of inflicting harm.

Do you know why adoptions is the cover? Because that was the Russians weak counter to try and look strong at home and inflict harm toward us. Why the Magnitsky Act was talked about in that meeting with a Kremlin tied, oligarch lawyer? Because the sanctions have in fact hurt Russia. Not just economically but their oligarchs are not happy. Which is really important for someone like Putin who's power is deeply intertwined with the oligarchic elite and their criminal enterprises.

They don't like having their assets frozen, their corrupt businesses harmed, access to critical markets shut off, blocked from traveling to places in the first world. They don't like looking weak to their domestic audience and failing to make good on promises like a booming economy Putin promised them in exchange for his power and isn't happening.

The difference between us and Russia is that we have a democratic form of government. Which is a step much further then Russia. We have also earned our allies by being the better actor on the world stage compared to the alternatives. But unless you are advocating some powerful international government, the hegemonic arrangement will always necessitate and allow ugly actions. But that doesnt mean you let an even worse actor, doing even worse actions, with even worse motives, go unchecked.

Inaction has consequences just like action does, you can't run away from that fact. And inaction toward Russia on these actions would only embolden further ones.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 7:03 pm
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
35828 posts
Posted on 7/25/17 at 8:29 pm to
quote:

We invaded Iraq in 2002,

2003
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