re: Bieber's actions blamed on steroid use (Clenbuterol)

quote:

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I would love some anecdotal accounts from people who have used high dose HMB or tongkat ali (ingredient from some testojack varieties).

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I might can help here...

Moderate does HMB is a waste of money. The science appears to be there, but in the real world, it doesn't work. High dose is purported to work, but is cost prohibitive for most. I used EAS's HMB product (which I trusted for bioavailability and quality) for extended periods. I was absolutely meticulous in my diet and lifting back then. I tracked every calorie I ate broken down by macro nutrient content as well using a glucometer to measure blood sugar responses to everything for weeks. Had a spreadsheet that was extremely accurate as to everything. I went weeks not eating anything I could not measure and know its exact contents.

I separately experimented with HMB as a stand alone and in EAS's Betagen product. Back then (90's) real world results from HMB use was universally terrible. MM and EAS still claimed it was effective but some of their writers (TC who left to form Biotest) later admitted higher doses were needed to be effective. I eventually tried triple what was recommended and believe it was only marginally more effective, but I did not do it for an extended period (cost prohibitive for a college kid) so can't say for sure. Hope that helps.

As for tongkat ali...

It definitely affects libido. I have used it ever since it was first mentioned in the mid-90s off and on. It IS a libido booster. I still take it off and on. As for muscle building, after many years of taking different versions of it from different companies, I have decided it is not effective in muscle building for whatever reason. I know it is supposed to lower SHGB (and therefore should increase free test levels) but I do not believe it helps to any significant degree in the anabolic processes. I think the primary action may be an increase in LH, but not enough to really be anabolic.

The entire hormonal system is complex. I have a theory (that I have never looked for scientific literary verification of) that androgenic properties are important in the equation as well when trying to really illicit an anabolic response when trying to tweak different hormones.