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re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.

Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:32 pm to
Posted by darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
7701 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Socratics


Judge Ponsor relies upon the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ("ICC") for his definitions of "persecution" and "crime against humanity", which the complaint alleges Pastor Lively aided and abetted by his support for the anti-gay actions and agenda of members of Uganda's government. However, the United States has never ratified the Rome Statute.

Judge Ponsor acknowledges that no current international treaty or compact, including the Rome Statute, makes discrimination against persons on account of their sexual orientation expressly subject to its terms.

Judge Ponsor holds that Pastor Lively, who visited Uganda twice in 2002 and then not again until 2009, could be regarded as a "co-conspirator" with a member of the Ugandan legislature who introduced proposed legislation against homosexual behavior (the bill never passed).

Judge Ponsor also holds that Pastor Lively may be held responsible in Massachusetts for the alleged anti-gay sentiment aroused in Uganda by his authorship of two books published in the United States in 2007 and 2009 and describing and attacking the gay rights agenda in the United States, even though the plaintiff organization could not allege that any Ugandan police or government officials who implemented that country's own anti-gay agenda against its members had actually read either book.

Judge Ponsor declines to apply Ugandan law to the offenses of civil conspiracy and negligence alleged in the complaint -- because Uganda does not recognize the tort of civil conspiracy, while Massachusetts does, and because the concept of "duty of care" under Ugandan negligence law was unclear. Recognizing that the plaintiff could not sue Pastor Lively in Uganda for these offenses, Judge Ponsor throws open the doors of his courtroom so that the plaintiff will have a forum for its grievances.

Posted by Socratics
Virginia Beach
Member since Dec 2013
2477 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

Judge Ponsor relies upon the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ("ICC") for his definitions of "persecution" and "crime against humanity", which the complaint alleges Pastor Lively aided and abetted by his support for the anti-gay actions and agenda of members of Uganda's government. However, the United States has never ratified the Rome Statute.

Judge Ponsor acknowledges that no current international treaty or compact, including the Rome Statute, makes discrimination against persons on account of their sexual orientation expressly subject to its terms.

Judge Ponsor holds that Pastor Lively, who visited Uganda twice in 2002 and then not again until 2009, could be regarded as a "co-conspirator" with a member of the Ugandan legislature who introduced proposed legislation against homosexual behavior (the bill never passed).

Judge Ponsor also holds that Pastor Lively may be held responsible in Massachusetts for the alleged anti-gay sentiment aroused in Uganda by his authorship of two books published in the United States in 2007 and 2009 and describing and attacking the gay rights agenda in the United States, even though the plaintiff organization could not allege that any Ugandan police or government officials who implemented that country's own anti-gay agenda against its members had actually read either book.

Judge Ponsor declines to apply Ugandan law to the offenses of civil conspiracy and negligence alleged in the complaint -- because Uganda does not recognize the tort of civil conspiracy, while Massachusetts does, and because the concept of "duty of care" under Ugandan negligence law was unclear. Recognizing that the plaintiff could not sue Pastor Lively in Uganda for these offenses, Judge Ponsor throws open the doors of his courtroom so that the plaintiff will have a forum for its grievances.


quote:

Although the United States is not a party to the I.C.C.’s Statute, the Obama administration has been prepared to support the court’s prosecutions and provide assistance in response to specific requests from the I.C.C. prosecutor and other court officials, consistent with U.S. law, when it is in U.S. national interest to do so.


If found guilty, the USA can choose to follow it. If they make it a simple Uganda vs Uganda crime, they could simply use the anti-gay rhetoric as a tool for such actions for a crime against humanity. Still, thats a bit of a stretch.

Regardless, I don't think the Pastor is going anywhere or being punished. It will make him look bad and possibly bankrupt his organization ,so he can't keep doing what hes doing.
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