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re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?
Posted on 1/29/13 at 4:50 pm to Chicken
Posted on 1/29/13 at 4:50 pm to Chicken
quote:
I know he couldn't beat Bear Bryant, and that played a major part
If that had played a major part, he would have been fired LONG before his EIGHTEENTH season and compiling a 2-14 record against him. Truth is, LSU admins back then were just as happy to play second fiddle to Alabama and Bryant as our current ones are to play second fiddle to Alabama and Saban.
quote:
Was it the 1974 and 1975 seasons that were the beginning of the end?
I was still pretty new to LSU football at that time, but that was when I first started hearing people complaining about him.
One thing is for sure. Not beating Alabama had little or nothing to do with it. LSU fans back then were just like the majority of them are now: happy to sometimes finish second to Alabama, never feel deserving of finishing #1. As our AD has plainly stated, it's not about winning championships, it's about almost winning them.
1
Posted on 1/29/13 at 7:18 pm to Nuts4LSU
First, kudos to the "old-timers" (of which I consider myself). So many well-written posts. Big thanks to:
I-59 Tiger
plawmac
Beltway Bengal
Montana Tiger
dimet
LCTiger69
Nuts4LSU
I was aware of most of the thoughts concerning Cholly Mac except for the inner-dynamics of his coaching staff. Didn't know about that.
Few other things of that era:
- The definition of "success" was different then. Then, success was largely beating our rivals (mostly Ole Miss & Tulane) and going to a bowl. Championships were sort of an afterthought.
- Prior to integration and the demise of Tulane, LSU had no recruiting advantage compared to other SEC schools and the nation. Beginning in the early 70's (?), schools were limited to how many players that could sign. That tended to distribute talent more evenly (Bama could no longer sign the best/better of 40-50 players each year; disclaimer -> I have never really checked to see how many players Bama was signing back then). My point is Mac had no geo-recruiting advantage as today.
The parallels between Mac ('69-'73) and Les today are interesting.
- We didn't lose to bad teams; we didn't get blown out.
- Mac had his debacle with the Veer ('74); Les with Malleveto ('08).
- When Mike Miley (who autographed my baseball glove) left early < '74, we were left in a QB bog for the next 3 seasons (Billy Broussard/Carl Trimble in '74, Pat Lyons and Bobby Moreau in '75 and first part of '76, Ensminger (TrFr) begain starting in the latter part of '76).
What remains to be seen is if Les will succumb to Bama as did Mac in the 70's. If so, I would be in favor of replacing Les because I think we can do better. Stovall was a stop-gap after Bo Rein's untimely death. But Arnsparger was on the right track and in hindsight, I don't think it's unfounded to attribute some of the success in '87 & '88 to the momentum he left behind. Archer obviously was a dud.
I disagree slightly with this. I think it was a factor. Mac had recovered a little form the Miley-Veer debacle, but we were still losing to Bama every year. We had lost 8 straight seasons ('71-'78) before Mac's fate as HC was sealed.
I-59 Tiger
plawmac
Beltway Bengal
Montana Tiger
dimet
LCTiger69
Nuts4LSU
I was aware of most of the thoughts concerning Cholly Mac except for the inner-dynamics of his coaching staff. Didn't know about that.
Few other things of that era:
- The definition of "success" was different then. Then, success was largely beating our rivals (mostly Ole Miss & Tulane) and going to a bowl. Championships were sort of an afterthought.
- Prior to integration and the demise of Tulane, LSU had no recruiting advantage compared to other SEC schools and the nation. Beginning in the early 70's (?), schools were limited to how many players that could sign. That tended to distribute talent more evenly (Bama could no longer sign the best/better of 40-50 players each year; disclaimer -> I have never really checked to see how many players Bama was signing back then). My point is Mac had no geo-recruiting advantage as today.
The parallels between Mac ('69-'73) and Les today are interesting.
- We didn't lose to bad teams; we didn't get blown out.
- Mac had his debacle with the Veer ('74); Les with Malleveto ('08).
- When Mike Miley (who autographed my baseball glove) left early < '74, we were left in a QB bog for the next 3 seasons (Billy Broussard/Carl Trimble in '74, Pat Lyons and Bobby Moreau in '75 and first part of '76, Ensminger (TrFr) begain starting in the latter part of '76).
What remains to be seen is if Les will succumb to Bama as did Mac in the 70's. If so, I would be in favor of replacing Les because I think we can do better. Stovall was a stop-gap after Bo Rein's untimely death. But Arnsparger was on the right track and in hindsight, I don't think it's unfounded to attribute some of the success in '87 & '88 to the momentum he left behind. Archer obviously was a dud.
quote:
One thing is for sure. Not beating Alabama had little or nothing to do with it.
I disagree slightly with this. I think it was a factor. Mac had recovered a little form the Miley-Veer debacle, but we were still losing to Bama every year. We had lost 8 straight seasons ('71-'78) before Mac's fate as HC was sealed.
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