quote:
Also, it is your opinion that De Rossi is better but that is not a fact. You shouldn't say certainly. Schweinsteiger played the entire tournament injured and Löw should have made changes there as well.

You're right that it's an opinion but I seem to recall reading a few of yours as well. De Rossi has played the entire Euro injured also by the way.

quote:
The system is consistent with Italy. Germany changed up their entire style for just one game.

This, along with the rest of your post, is merely an uninformed attempt to not give Italy credit for straight up taking it to Germany and beating them pretty soundly.

Maybe you only pay any attention to Germany but even listening to pre-game commentary would inform you that the Italian team was in much more flux as far as lineups/formations due to injuries etc than Germany.

In fact, I've read it on this board 50 times as one of the reasons a majority of posters here picked Italy to not even make it out of their group.

For example, the defensive organization you praise Italy for consisted of these makeshift pieces:

Balzaretti -- an attacking LB not known for his defense played against Germany in an emergency situation at RB for probably the first time since he was a teenager and was asked to defend more than usual because both the normal first and second choice RBs Maggio (yellow accumulation) and Abate (injury) were unavailable.

Bonucci -- CB that no one expected to play that much at all but was forced into action because LB Criscito was removed from the team coupled with the Chiellini injury.

Chiellini -- world class CB playing LB where he's capable but not really his position and, like Schweinsteiger and De Rossi, not playing 100% due to an hamstring injury.

Barzargli-- solid CB but normally plays in a 3 man defense.

Italy, if you recall, played Spain in a 3 man defense with De Rossi in the center of the back three because of these problems. Every single match has seen Prandelli shuffle this back line around desperately due to injuries. Germany had more of a healthy first choice 11 available than Italy.

I agree that all four played very well but it's certainly not due to them playing their normal positions in a consistent system.

It may be due to having players available that are better tactically aware and therefore able to adapt on the fly. I agree with you that Prandelli out coached Low but isn't tactical awareness and better coaching one of Italy's strengths?

I also agree that Kroos and Ozil seemed to have no idea where to position themselves which led to lots of Italian opportunities and also to Ozil's presence being continually diminished.

Again, I'd rather have a midfield with players that could figure it out. Montolivo's hardly played more that Kroos and he seemed to do ok in addition to all the defenders out of their normal positions.

And, further, like what I said about De Rossi, doesn't it need to be considered in some small amount when arguing which players are "better" that a certain player doesn't demand that an entire team/system need to be built around his talents in a certain way to be effective?

I'll take a player like De Rossi that wherever you play him, from CB to regista to destroyer to attacking mid, just ties his laces and gets the job done.

This post was edited on 6/29/12 at 5:56 pm

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Posted by Friend of OBUDan

Member since Dec 2008

9963 posts

Posted on 6/29/12 at 6:00 pm to wm72

Excellent post.

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Posted by hendersonshands

Univ. of Louisiana Ragin Cajuns

Member since Oct 2007

160105 posts

Posted on 6/29/12 at 6:26 pm to wm72

My point isn't that the Italians didn't play very well or play injured or anything. My point is that Italy has a system. They played their system. They had players fighting through injury, if you notice I never said anything bad about the Italian players. I thought they played great.

Germany HAD a system or a style that they abandoned once they got to the semi-final. Italy lets their midfield maestro have free reign in the middle of the field, which is smart but pretty easy to figure out. Germany used to let their midfield maestro let have free reign and pick apart passes but they changed right before the biggest game of the tournament.

I think you're quick to be sensitive about Italy because I didn't try to cut down any of their players, as a matter of fact I'm pulling for them in the final because they've looked great all tournament.

My point is that Jogi Loew fricked up moreso than Italy playing out of their skull. It's my opinion, my opinion is all I offer, that Jogi's wrong decisions had more to do with the outcome of the game than anything else.

I give one example, the inclusion of Toni Kroos. Kroos is a fine player and if you really want to get him in the squad there are ways to do so. However, Jogi plugged in Kroos as an attacking midfielder and kept Schweinsteiger and Khedira in at holding mid spots. Schweiny wasn't healthy, not even close. If you have that much faith in Kroos, put him in for Schweiny.

But he didn't. He put in Kroos in place of Reus/Muller. That changed up the way Germany played, big time. What that created was an unbalanced midfield. You had two guy who were trying to stay in the middle and Podolski staying really wide left. There was a gaping hole on the right side because neither Ozil or Kroos are wide players.

That forced Jerome Boateng to play very high up the field. There are two problems with that scenario:
1) That leaves your backline vulnerable, as you saw when Hummels kept having to shift out wide to pick up Cassano who found the big arse hole where Boateng should be.
2) Boateng isn't a very good crosser of the ball. The Italians figured that out very quickly and didn't even bother to go out to challenge him. Smart by Italy but not that hard to figure out.

That whole situation led to the middle of the field being overcrowded, which effectively killed Mesut Ozil's creativity. Mario Gomez wasn't going to work hard to find open spaces in the back. Jogi at least figured that out quick and took him off at halftime.

Jogi made the change at halftime to bring on Reus but he should have taken off Kroos or Schweinsteiger in order to do so. Germany played right into Italy's hands by trying to force everything up the middle of the field.

As far as your point with De Rossi, I never said he's not a good player. I said that Schweinsteiger was playing injured and not doing it well and a change should have probably been made.

Italy didn't have to work that hard to break down Germany, because the Germans did it to themselves. Italy took their chances well, all credit to them for doing so. I think that if Jogi wouldn't have messed up the tactics and the lineup, it would have been much harder to Italy to get into the scoring positions that they got in to.

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Posted by LSUSOBEAST1