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Message
Spring Game QB Numbers Inside the Numbers
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:41 pm
you always see things a little differently on film than you do live. I just watched the Spring Game again on 360 today, and here are some things that I believe to be worth noting:
Jordan Jefferson
Jefferson went 8 for 23 with an INT. Of those, 3 were throw aways and 3 were drops that should have been easy completions.
Jefferson's incompletions were mostly on him. He lacks touch, still held on to the ball WAY too long, and still seemed to lock onto one receiver without working through his progressions in a timely manner. This isn't new, but he is still much too indecisive and relies too heavily on his feet, which doesn't bode well when you're wearing a green non-contact jersey.
During the 2-minute drill at the end of the scrimmage, knowing that the clock was ticking and the defense only needed a touch for him to be down, he scrambled for a full 10 secondsand took a sack. Again, extemely poor decision making.
His body language and facial expressions also concerned me. He would make a horrific throw then look at his receivers with this "WTF, man!" expression on his face. When Shep dropped that long pass (possibly JJ's best throw of the day), his shoulders were slumped and he looked pretty defeated. To be fair, that had to be disappointing, but leaders carry themselves better than that.
Stating the obvious, he did not look good. It didn't take watching a replay to realize that. However, after watching the film, his performance may have been even worse than I originally thought.
Jarrett Lee
Went 10 for 20. Of the 10 that weren't completions, 4 were throw aways and 4 were drops that should have been completions, including the fade to Tolliver that probably would have been caught if 80 hadn't been wearing a cast on his hand.
...and another pick 6. It was a great play by Loston and it really wasn't a very bad throw. Unfortunately, the throw on that route has to be dead on, and he led the receiver a little too much and the ball was too high. It seems that the majority of his pick sixes have been on that route throwing back to the left.
To reiterate what the ESPN crew said (accurately), he was more decisive, had a better mental clock, had a quicker release and just did an all-around better job of managing the game.
A few additional notes:
I cringed when I heard Miles say "let's get another series with our 'best' QB with the first team". I really hope that he opens it up and makes JJ earn that moniker.
It would have been nice to see a little more of Chris Garrett, but I do believe that the starting two need all of the reps that they can get.
Jordan Jefferson
Jefferson went 8 for 23 with an INT. Of those, 3 were throw aways and 3 were drops that should have been easy completions.
Jefferson's incompletions were mostly on him. He lacks touch, still held on to the ball WAY too long, and still seemed to lock onto one receiver without working through his progressions in a timely manner. This isn't new, but he is still much too indecisive and relies too heavily on his feet, which doesn't bode well when you're wearing a green non-contact jersey.
During the 2-minute drill at the end of the scrimmage, knowing that the clock was ticking and the defense only needed a touch for him to be down, he scrambled for a full 10 secondsand took a sack. Again, extemely poor decision making.
His body language and facial expressions also concerned me. He would make a horrific throw then look at his receivers with this "WTF, man!" expression on his face. When Shep dropped that long pass (possibly JJ's best throw of the day), his shoulders were slumped and he looked pretty defeated. To be fair, that had to be disappointing, but leaders carry themselves better than that.
Stating the obvious, he did not look good. It didn't take watching a replay to realize that. However, after watching the film, his performance may have been even worse than I originally thought.
Jarrett Lee
Went 10 for 20. Of the 10 that weren't completions, 4 were throw aways and 4 were drops that should have been completions, including the fade to Tolliver that probably would have been caught if 80 hadn't been wearing a cast on his hand.
...and another pick 6. It was a great play by Loston and it really wasn't a very bad throw. Unfortunately, the throw on that route has to be dead on, and he led the receiver a little too much and the ball was too high. It seems that the majority of his pick sixes have been on that route throwing back to the left.
To reiterate what the ESPN crew said (accurately), he was more decisive, had a better mental clock, had a quicker release and just did an all-around better job of managing the game.
A few additional notes:
I cringed when I heard Miles say "let's get another series with our 'best' QB with the first team". I really hope that he opens it up and makes JJ earn that moniker.
It would have been nice to see a little more of Chris Garrett, but I do believe that the starting two need all of the reps that they can get.
This post was edited on 3/28/10 at 1:45 pm
7
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:48 pm to ffishstik
quote:
It would have been nice to see a little more of Chris Garrett, but I do believe that the starting two need all of the reps that they can get.
Probably so, but reps can come in fall practice when they really matter. Reps right now are pretty meaningless when you have 4 months to go. I always thought spring game was to see how much progress players, units had made.
Not sure why Garrett didn't get more shaps.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:51 pm to ffishstik
quote:
I cringed when I heard Miles say "let's get another series with our 'best' QB with the first team". I really hope that he opens it up and makes JJ earn that moniker.
+1
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:55 pm to ffishstik
I think if JL has a tendency to throw picks on a certain route, then maybe the play shouldn't be called.
Having said that, I believe GC has tried to make the players fit his system rather than create a system that fits the capabilities of his QB. It's like a Basketball Coach trying to force players to shoot 3 pointers when they can't make them but they can drive the lane and draw the foul.
GC and LM are not using an offensive system that fits talents of the players on this team. Half the problem with the running game last year was it was so predictable...the play and who was going to run it.
Will it be different this year?
Having said that, I believe GC has tried to make the players fit his system rather than create a system that fits the capabilities of his QB. It's like a Basketball Coach trying to force players to shoot 3 pointers when they can't make them but they can drive the lane and draw the foul.
GC and LM are not using an offensive system that fits talents of the players on this team. Half the problem with the running game last year was it was so predictable...the play and who was going to run it.
Will it be different this year?
Posted on 3/28/10 at 1:58 pm to ffishstik
quote:
ffishstik
Your'e an idiot.
Now, I think that JJ obviously didnt help his case any, but both qb struggled a lot, with Lee having a little bit better of a day. I still think it is open competition between Lee and JJ, despite what miles says.
If we have ZERO passing game next year it will be because JJ had the same kind of performance as he did last year--hanging on to the ball TOO long, scrambling around and not getting the ball out quick enough. Despite the pick six jokes, i think that Lee will get a strong look at QB because he gets the ball out much quicker, and has just as good if not better of an arm than does JJ.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:11 pm to ironsides
quote:
Your'e an idiot.
That wasn't really necessary, Cheetah.
quote:
Now, I think that JJ obviously didnt help his case any, but both qb struggled a lot, with Lee having a little bit better of a day. I still think it is open competition between Lee and JJ, despite what miles says.
If we have ZERO passing game next year it will be because JJ had the same kind of performance as he did last year--hanging on to the ball TOO long, scrambling around and not getting the ball out quick enough. Despite the pick six jokes, i think that Lee will get a strong look at QB because he gets the ball out much quicker, and has just as good if not better of an arm than does JJ.
This isn't terribly different than what I said. I will say that JL looked much better than his numbers would lead you to believe, but I never said that he should be handed the starter's job. I've seen every game that JL has played in, and the pick six factor scares the shite out of me. That said, aside from the first half of the Chick-Fil-A, Jefferson has been average at best, and that's being generous. I just hope that they have an honest QB competition in the Fall and they put the best guy on the field.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:13 pm to ffishstik
quote:
Well, the whole point of a board like this is for people to offer their opinions and for other people to respond. When people offer thoughtful opinions, and others respond with intelligence and respect, then the system works and we can all benefit from hearing other perspectives on a subject we all care about. If you think the original poster was wrong in his assessment, that's fine. Just explain why you differ, in a respectful, intelligent way. If you don't think his opinion is worth your time, then move on to another thread. It's really a pretty simple concept...
Well stated.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:16 pm to ffishstik
quote:
ffishstik
Wow. I totally responded to the wrong poster. I was trying to respond to lsutiger for saying the qb position is worthless. All that whiskey i drank last night+being on a message board isnt the best combination
My bad bro lol
This post was edited on 3/28/10 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:20 pm to ffishstik
Jefferson has already displayed he is pretty accurate as he threw for 62% last year.
He showed in the Arkansas game the ability to move the team down field very well in a 2 minute situation. He also was doing fine in the situation against PSU until the ref fricked us with that bs no call on the delay of game.
I think people are takng too much stock in a what could easily be dismissed as a poor practice.
I think it would be more fair to get off the guys back until he fricks up with a decent OL and rushing attack.
Lee has gotten his chance as a second year and third year player and not siezed the moment during actual game time. I think if Lee would have tore it up against Bama(or at least decent) and LaTech I wouldn think this is more up for debate.
So basically all the fans calling for Lee to possibly take this over are basing it off of a spring game(which means relatively nothing) and some decent props for hardwork in practice.
All I have seen is Jefferson play decent with flashes of great and Lee with a few flashes of greatness drowned out by a bunch of shite.
He showed in the Arkansas game the ability to move the team down field very well in a 2 minute situation. He also was doing fine in the situation against PSU until the ref fricked us with that bs no call on the delay of game.
I think people are takng too much stock in a what could easily be dismissed as a poor practice.
I think it would be more fair to get off the guys back until he fricks up with a decent OL and rushing attack.
Lee has gotten his chance as a second year and third year player and not siezed the moment during actual game time. I think if Lee would have tore it up against Bama(or at least decent) and LaTech I wouldn think this is more up for debate.
So basically all the fans calling for Lee to possibly take this over are basing it off of a spring game(which means relatively nothing) and some decent props for hardwork in practice.
All I have seen is Jefferson play decent with flashes of great and Lee with a few flashes of greatness drowned out by a bunch of shite.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:22 pm to lsutiger2486
quote:
All I have seen is Jefferson play decent with flashes of great and Lee with a few flashes of greatness drowned out by a bunch of shite.
Pretty shitty evaluation.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:26 pm to lsutiger2486
quote:
My bad bro lol
No worries, Cheetah. I know you to be a good poster.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Pretty shitty evaluation.
Why does no one acknowledge the fact the OL and Rushing game completely sucked in 2009 compared to 2008. If Jefferson had that type of support in 2009 we win a lot more games.
McElroy ws not better than JJ last year. The reason he is wearing a NC ring is because he had a better supporting cast.
Jefferson might not be all sec or all American, but he has not sucked like Lee has over the last two seasons.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
JL obviously had the better game but neither had a great game and in all honesty if either starts the season with the type of performace they put up yesterday we're in for another long season
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I wouldn't say that, Roger. I don't entirely agree with it, but it's his opinion. In fairness, JL did look horrible in limited action last year.
BTW, cool name. my 6 y/o recently saw Holy Grail for the first time. My wife wasn't thrilled; he walked around for the following week saying "Bring me a shrubbery!" and "You must chop down the largest tree in the forest with...a herring!"
BTW, cool name. my 6 y/o recently saw Holy Grail for the first time. My wife wasn't thrilled; he walked around for the following week saying "Bring me a shrubbery!" and "You must chop down the largest tree in the forest with...a herring!"
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:40 pm to lsutiger2486
quote:
So basically all the fans calling for Lee to possibly take this over are basing it off of a spring game(which means relatively nothing) and some decent props for hardwork in practice
I don't think people are calling for JL to start. They are calling for an open QB competition. I don't think either QB has done a good enough job to be handed the position. We performs best from now to the start of the season should get the start.
quote:
He showed in the Arkansas game the ability to move the team down field very well in a 2 minute situation
JJ was saved by the ref saying Ridley was out of bounds when he was clearly inbounds that would have ran the clock down and we don't get the field goal off
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:42 pm to ffishstik
quote:
Why does no one acknowledge the fact the OL and Rushing game completely sucked in 2009 compared to 2008. If Jefferson had that type of support in 2009 we win a lot more games.
Consider it acknowledged. They would have won more games with better line play. I STILL believe that the key to a successful season lies more with the line (on both sides) than it does with the QB. Anyone can be a good manager of the game if you have an O-line that gives you a world of time, RBs that grind out drives and a defense that gets you the ball back.
All of that being said, there are games where the QB has to put the team on his shoulders for them to win. I have actually seen JL do this a few times, I can't say that I've seen it from JJ. In fact, part of the problem with the running game last year (aside from injuries) was the fact that opposing defenses had no reason to believe that Jefferson would beat them with his arm.
And, yes, before someone says it, I've also seen JL lose a game almost single-handedly, too (Georgia in 08). And, the comeback that he engineered against AU that year came after he put them in the hole with a pick 6.
This post was edited on 3/28/10 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 3/28/10 at 2:58 pm to ffishstik
quote:
Jefferson has already displayed he is pretty accurate as he threw for 62% last year.
and you can count the number of deep passes he threw on two hands....
99% of JJ's throws were between 5 and 10 yards on high percentage plays. It's very simple one two three throw, virtually no read. We saw what happened if there was a more difficult passing play called (sack or scrambling to throw the ball away, sometimes for a positive gain).
It's true JJ didn't have the offensive line JL had in 08 but he should realize this by the 3 game and want to get the ball out quickly, you don't just sit back there and wait for the primary receiver to get open. What really frustrates me is Dickson would be open and JJ would not even look remotely in his direction.
I think we as LSU fans need to get over our fear of the pick 6 and give Lee a shot, I am not saying give him the job, just entertain the though of him winning the job.
Give this a thought - Our 08 pass defense was atrocious only forcing 8 interceptions and that was our starters running the scheme.
Lee practiced against our 2nd teamers. Practicing against a defense that bad had to affect his game time decisions.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 3:01 pm to lsutiger2486
quote:
Why does no one acknowledge the fact the OL and Rushing game completely sucked in 2009 compared to 2008. If Jefferson had that type of support in 2009 we win a lot more games.
Uhhh..no. You simply don't understand what you are seeing on the field.
quote:
McElroy ws not better than JJ last year. The reason he is wearing a NC ring is because he had a better supporting cast.
His coaching staff knew how to avoid his deficiencies. LSU's doesn't.
quote:
Jefferson might not be all sec or all American, but he has not sucked like Lee has over the last two seasons.
Well crap. We may not can move the ball or score, but we don't throw INT's. Well hell sherlock. If you don't throw the ball withint 10 feet of a defender you are not going to have INT's. You also are not going to move the chains.
Posted on 3/28/10 at 3:07 pm to ffishstik
the thing that bothers me is neither of them played well and it wasnt even a real game in front of a real crowd. I know some people play better in games and not so well in practice. But we all know Jlee looks good in practice, but not so much in games. I think it takes lee too long to settle down. and jordan just doesnt have the release.
We should hope ron and patrick to give us good field position and kick 57 yrd field goals all day long
We should hope ron and patrick to give us good field position and kick 57 yrd field goals all day long
This post was edited on 3/28/10 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 3/28/10 at 3:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
And, yes, before someone says it, I've also seen JL lose a game almost single-handedly, too (Georgia in 08).
I really wouldn't say Lee lost us the game.. He did throw 3 int one being a pick 6 but, we should win any game if we score 38 points. Our defense gave up 45 points that game and could not stop UGA at all.
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