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A League of Their Own question
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:38 am
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:38 am
Does Dottie Henson drop the ball on purpose?
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:41 am to lsumma09
Yes, which is total bullshite
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:56 am to lsumma09
I've actually had this debate before sadly enough. And the answer is no, her sister simply made the play. She didn't decide to come back and play her arse off to throw the play at the plate with the game on the line.
People who claim the character intentionally dropped the ball are retarded to me.
ETA: Sorry Smartass, no offense.
People who claim the character intentionally dropped the ball are retarded to me.
ETA: Sorry Smartass, no offense.
This post was edited on 7/6/09 at 12:57 am
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:59 am to ChewyDante
She clearly dropped the ball on purpose
This post was edited on 7/6/09 at 1:03 am
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:04 am to LSUsmartass
quote:
She clearly dropped the ball on purpose
That's a negative. Please provide support for your assertion.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:04 am to ChewyDante
my interpretation about that play is that throughout the movie Dottie is better than her little sister at everything (better player, better looking, bigger star, etc.) and in that final play the little sister finally owns her bigger sister, sort of a coming of age theme
could have been that Dottie's heart wasnt totally in it and that Kit's (or whatever her name was) heart was all in but there is no way that Dottie dropped the ball on purpose, that would have been stupid
although now that I think about it, an argument could be made that she did drop the ball but I dont buy it and I dont think that was her intention is the movie
could have been that Dottie's heart wasnt totally in it and that Kit's (or whatever her name was) heart was all in but there is no way that Dottie dropped the ball on purpose, that would have been stupid
although now that I think about it, an argument could be made that she did drop the ball but I dont buy it and I dont think that was her intention is the movie
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:06 am to ChewyDante
Dottie was the superior athlete and Kit has been in her shadow since day 1...no way she is all of a sudden going to have a lapse is physical ability during the biggest game/time/moment of her life.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:06 am to jrowla2
quote:
my interpretation about that play is that throughout the movie Dottie is better than her little sister at everything (better player, better looking, bigger star, etc.) and in that final play the little sister finally owns her bigger sister, sort of a coming of age theme
ding, ding!
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:16 am to jrowla2
quote:
my interpretation about that play is that throughout the movie Dottie is better than her little sister at everything (better player, better looking, bigger star, etc.) and in that final play the little sister finally owns her bigger sister, sort of a coming of age theme
I disagree. The whole backstory tht was sledgehammered home, was Kit's jealousy of Dottie. I think Dottie dropped the ball so Kit could play the hero for once. And I think Kit might even have known it - deep down.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:18 am to Sammich
quote:
I think Dottie dropped the ball so Kit could play the hero for once. And I think Kit might even have known it - deep down.
ding ding ding
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:23 am to Sammich
quote:
I think Dottie dropped the ball so Kit could play the hero for once. And I think Kit might even have known it - deep down.
At what point did she make this conscious decision? Before she came BACK to the team in the middle of the championship series because she realized how bad she wanted it? What about during that final game when she was playing her arse off and helping her team to win the game with great hitting and a top notch performance on defense? Or was it in that flash of an instant when Kit was barreling towards home (defying the stop call mind you) and Dottie secured the throw and turned to face the runner? She clearly couldn't have planned it ahead of time, so you must believe she made this conflicting decision in a couple of seconds.
And the movie then made no mention or even hint of it afterward. Yet some of you people still push this theory with no support...
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:25 am to ChewyDante
quote:
Yet some of you people still push this theory with no support...
And you push yours with no support
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:32 am to LSUsmartass
quote:
And you push yours with no support
Are you blind?
I've supported my view with relevant context from the plot and the personal characteristics of the parties involved in said play.
So far all you guys have done is presumed that Dottie dropped it on purpose to make Kit the hero though the plot line doesn't support that idea whatsoever and the movie never even remotely indicates that this is the case.
Do you not recognize what constitutes "support"?
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:48 am to ChewyDante
quote:
Or was it in that flash of an instant when Kit was barreling towards home (defying the stop call mind you) and Dottie secured the throw and turned to face the runner?
Right there. She could easily have hung onto that ball unless she was knocked unconscious.
But..if she wins, so what? She's still going home to start her family. Where does that leave Kit? Kit would have spent the rest of her life in the shadows of the Great Dottie Hinsin. She would have resented Dottie for the rest of her life. And as we heard many, many times, she didn't care about as much as Kit. So by dropping the ball, Dottie can still has a relationship with her sister, even if it was somewhat strained.
Kit suspected the drop ball incident, she could never really be positive she dropped it...but she spent time thinking about it, when it happened & later on. Also Kit was never really better than Dottie and she knew it. Many a sleepless night for Kit thinking about that. Note at the end, it appeared they didn't seem to be very close sisters - strained.
This post was edited on 7/6/09 at 1:51 am
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:49 am to ChewyDante
quote:
Do you not recognize what constitutes "support"?
The biggest piece of support for the argument that Dottie dropped the ball intentionally is the shot of her watching Kit cry and then the twinge of sadness on Dottie's face. Of course, the counter to that is the fact that she instructed Ellen Sue to only throw the high heat - a pitch that Kit could never catch up to back home.
Who knows really? Clearly it's implied that Dottie never cared about the sport as much as Kit, but the speech from Jimmy likely hit on her underlying competitiveness and drive.
As to your earlier contention that Dottie wouldn't come back just to let her sister win, I would say that she definitely lacked a certain desire to win considering the fact that she only showed up for the last game in the series. Thus, it's not outside the realm of possibility that, upon seeing her sister crying in the dugout, Dottie had an epiphany of sorts that winning mattered a hell of a lot more to Kit than to Dottie.
I have also discussed this scenario before, and though I see it from both sides, I tend to side with the "dropped it on purpose" crowd - mainly because Dottie was shown to be such a bad arse ballplayer that her runt of a sister, even on her best day, couldn't take Dottie out.
This post was edited on 7/6/09 at 1:57 am
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:03 am to ChewyDante
quote:
I've supported my view with relevant context from the plot and the personal characteristics of the parties involved in said play.
Yeah and its all opinionated, running through a stop sign is about the only factual thing you stated.
How about the fact that Kit blew up at her sister for always being better then her at everything through yelling and screaming which displayed she had been pinning all of this anger up towards her older sister for a long time. Dottie had a home and a family to go back to while Kit had nothing but sports in her immediate future. You don't think the repercussions of not dropping that ball zipped through Dotties mind in that 1 or 2 seconds as Kit was barreling towards her? Holding onto that ball may have cost her a little sister for a very long time.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:11 am to LSUsmartass
quote:
How about the fact that Kit blew up at her sister for always being better then her at everything through yelling and screaming which displayed she had been pinning all of this anger up towards her older sister for a long time.
How 'bout it? I'm very aware of that scene.
quote:
Dottie had a home and a family to go back to while Kit had nothing but sports in her immediate future. You don't think the repercussions of not dropping that ball zipped through Dotties mind in that 1 or 2 seconds as Kit was barreling towards her?
No. Just because she had a husband and Kit didn't she decides to throw the championship game at the very end and comes to this profound decision in an instant as the play develops? This is absurd to me.
Not to mention that she came back after realizing how important it was to her. Dugan's speech had made it's mark was clearly the implication. You think she would come back to play just to frick over Dugan and all of her teammates because her sister doesn't have a husband and was never as good as her? Her sister was clearly a good player, Dottie wasn't fricking infallible.
quote:
Yeah and its all opinionated,
Lots of debates are, which is why contextual support sets some assertions apart from others.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:13 am to ChewyDante
Well you're screaming for support and I'm sure if I go back and watch the movie I can write a 10 page book report with nothing but plot support for my opinion.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:17 am to ChewyDante
quote:
You think she would come back to play just to frick over Dugan and all of her teammates because her sister doesn't have a husband and was never as good as her? Her sister was clearly a good player, Dottie wasn't fricking infallible.
Exactly, she left and had to come back. If something were really really important to you would you leave while things were at their peak? Do you think Ryan Howard would leave the Phillies the week before the World Series? She left because it just wasn't that important to her and she left because she put more value on other things other then baseball. This clearly shows that she places family above all else and it wouldn't be so far fetched to believe that she placed the value of her sisters happiness above holding onto that baseball.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:34 am to LSUsmartass
quote:
Exactly, she left and had to come back.
She didn't have to come back. She was with her husband and "halfway to Oregon" if I recall correctly before turning back. Sounds like she was pretty serious about it, not to mention making great plays all throughout the game.
quote:
She left because it just wasn't that important to her and she left because she put more value on other things other then baseball.
She left because she was constantly fearing her husband's death in the war and yes, the emotions of him being home trumped baseball for her initially. After having time to think about it, she came to the conclusion that she wanted to finish the season. Not keep playing forever, but finish the season and win. Just because she left at one point doesn't mean her heart wasn't in it when she came back.
quote:
This clearly shows that she places family above all else and it wouldn't be so far fetched to believe that she placed the value of her sisters happiness above holding onto that baseball.
Would have indicated a complete break in her characteristics as solidified throughout the film IMO and would've showed a lack of character and integrity rather than a noble deed. I think it quite ignoble to screw over all your teammates and your coach who you developed a bond with, a team and coach that you convinced to let you come back and play in the championship game with because you were serious about winning, and then to stab them all in the back simply to boost your sister's morale, even though you'd never done it at other junctures before.
Maybe the director did decide to make that the case, who fricking knows with Hollywood, but it would be completely ludicrous in my opinion and would detract greatly from the movies ending since it makes no logical sense but merely provides that feel good shite that so many people have to have in their movies.
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