Started By
Message

re: Why have churches started allowing gay preachers?

Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:40 pm to
Posted by Prodigal Son
Member since May 2023
753 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:40 pm to
Before we get into this, I want to make it clear that God’s word says that ALL sexual immorality is a sin. And, that one who struggles with homosexuality is no less loved by God than one who struggles with heterosexual immorality- sexual relations outside the bond of marriage, adultery, pornography, etc. I am in no position (nor do I desire) to cast stones. My only intention is to defend what the Bible teaches- with reverence and respect. And a little humor to lighten the mood.

quote:

I am religious

Interesting choice of words. You know who else was religious? Pharisees.


quote:

don't believe being gay is a sin. Nor is it a choice.


Well, God’s word disagrees- strongly.

Genesis 2:24 - Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
From the very beginning, God’s plan was for one man, and one woman, to be joined together in the bonds of marriage.

Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Bolded to show that this verse at least implies that the act in question is a free-will-decision

Romans 1:26-28 ~ For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

God’s word is very clear, that homosexuality and all other forms of sexual immorality are sinful- among many, many other things; things that, if we’re all being honest, we all have various areas in which we struggle- seemingly to no avail. More on that later.


quote:

many in the history of the church have taken a few phrases in the Bible out of context.

Sure. But, which ones are you referring to here? I would love to discuss this in more detail.

quote:

I read those phrases in the context of using sex, particularly gay sex, in a non-loving way and abusive way.

Ok. But, this is called eisegesis- which means an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

quote:

There were many examples where men in power abused young boys and forced sex on them.

Right. What’s the easiest way to avoid such things? Follow God’s plan for heterosexual, monogamous marriages; and to abstain from all forms of sexual immorality.


quote:

This is the context that caused the men that wrote the Bible and the men that re-wrote the Bible lived in.

My friend, we could do a whole separate thread on this topic alone. Long story short- the Bible that we have today, is the same one they had then. Sure, there are some copyist errors, but absolutely nothing that changes any of the theology. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls bears this out.


quote:

I find it interesting that many take these verses as a cornerstone of their belief. If you are one of those, then why do you not emphasize the many other verses that you do not follow? Who here would stone their daughter to death if she has sex outside of marriage? Are adulterers put to death? Do you ever work on the Sabbath?

Wow. A lot to unpack there. And, I hope we get to do so. But, for now- do two wrongs make a right? Surely you don’t believe that one’s sin is justified by another’s?

quote:

These are not God's words, but were written by men and normally many years after the events or quotes from the original men that spoke them.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Again, there’s a lot to discuss here. But, if you don’t believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, then how can you call yourself a Christian? Oh, that’s right- you don’t. You’re “religious.”


quote:

Please share any comments where Jesus spoke against gay sex. I don't believe he ever did.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. (Matthew 15:19–20 ESV)
I find it interesting that He led with “for out of the heart come…” This also signifies a free will decision. So, when the Old Testament clearly states that homosexuality is indeed a form of sexual immorality, Jesus affirms that all forms of sexual immorality defile a person- He is, in fact, condemning homosexuality.

Look, friend- I applaud your desire to reconcile the lost to Christ. It seems to me that you believe that you are acting out of love- and that’s commendable. But the Bible is very clear on homosexuality, but to coddle someone in their sins because of your unwillingness to fight the battle- is the opposite of love. I hope to continue this conversation with you, and anyone else who wants to participate, because there is so much more to say about much of what has been said.
Posted by Rust Cohle
Baton rouge
Member since Mar 2014
1977 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 10:13 pm to
The Bible does not address homosexuality because homosexuality is a reference to a sexual orientation. And sexual orientation is a modern concept that developed in the 19th century. This is not to say there was no such thing as same sex intercourse anciently, but they organized their understanding of humn sexuality and their rationales for what was going on and what was appropriate and inappropriate in much different ways. So when we say homosexuality, we're referring to a conceptual framework that did not exist anciently. So the Bible does not address homosexuality because the concept didn't exist. The Bible does address acts of same -sex intercourse and the bible does prohibit and condemn them.

Now, I think the primary manifestation of these acts was probably in cultic acts and prostitution and things like that. But certainly the condemnations of it extend to other manifestations of it. Now, when we look at the rationales for why these things were inappropriate, when we look at their understanding of what was going on with same sex intercourse anciently, where it was coming from and these kinds of things, the rationales and the ethical frameworks are entirely outdated and have absolutely no relevance to us today.

If we try to leverage the Bible to suggest that these prohibitions and condemnations are relevant to today, we must strip them from their historical and ethical and conceptual settings. And that does injustice to the text in order to do injustice to people today. So people want to take prohibitions on tattoos, the endorsement of slavery and the endorsement of polygamy and try to rationalize them away by suggesting that they are products of an outdated society, or that was the way things were anciently. Great! But you have to be consistent about that. So people who leverage the Bible to try to prohibit or condemn same -sex intercourse today are doing so not because the text indicates that's what we have to do today. It's overwhelming that they're being influenced by their identity politics because opposition to same -sex intercourse has become such a powerful and central identity marker for conservative brands, particularly of Christianity, particularly right -wing authoritarian Christianity. So anyone trying to leverage the Bible to prohibit and condemn same -sex intercourse today is only doing because it serves their identity politics, and not because the Bible requires it.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 1Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram