quote:
Mike,
Why did Jesus have to pay the penalty?
Why was there a penalty at all?
To whom was the penalty paid?
Why did the recipient of the penalty payment require such a thing?
Why couldn’t the recipient of the penalty payment take action without it?
Think about those things and ask yourself if your answers make any kind of logical sense.

Every single bit of it makes sense. ALL of it.

Man was created by God, and sinned against God, thus breaking God’s laws in the process. When we break our own human laws, there are consequences to that, which we have to answer for in out judicial system, and the penalties vary. In God’s kingdom, which is all that we see before us, and He created, which are rightfully His to do with as He wishes, we have no claim to, and when man decided that he wanted to be like God, he fell and the consequences for that is eternal separation from God.

In our attempt to be like God, we fell under the unbearable weight of the law of God, which no man but Christ could live perfectly, and so only Christ could pay for that penalty for us, as any of us could not because we personally all deserve death or separation from God. SO, the only way to bring man and God back together in relationship is through Jesus, God in human flesh

He paid that price, and so salvation is a free gift to all who call upon Jesus, and believe upon Him for their salvation and only Him, thus accepting the gift which is offered them found not in any other, including themselves and their tainted good works, but Christ alone and what He has already done for those who will accept Him.

Sadly, most will not. They will reject Him just as God’s chosen people did when they had Him crucified, but this in spite of the fact that it was prophesied in scripture they knew very well what He would endure, and still they chose self righteousness over Him.

You cannot earn salvation or the right to presence in His kingdom through your good works. Only through accepting God’s Son, and the works Hid did and price He paid for your salvation can you be reconciled to God and have a relationship with our creator. There is no other way. It all gets back to man trying to be like God, that which got us into this predicament in the first place.

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Posted by Squirrelmeister

Member since Nov 2021

2234 posts

Posted on 2/3/24 at 10:05 pm to Mike da Tigah

quote:
Every single bit of it makes sense. ALL of it.

Hardly

And you only attempted to answer my first two questions and ignored the rest.

quote:
only Christ could pay for that penalty for us, as any of us could not

Was “God” supposed to be the recipient of that payment? Why would he require a blood sacrifice rather than just forgiving humanity? He could snap his fingers and forgive all sins… why’d he have to kill his “only” son? (as an aside, read Genesis 6, Deut 32, Psalms 82 and 89 to see if there was only one son of God… the Greek monogenes doesn’t mean “only” but it does mean something like “special”, “unique”, or “one of a kind”.)

Looking through a trinitarian formula makes it even more nonsensical. Imagine you’re an Italian mobster who had an employee break your rules. You could just forgive him. Or you could kill him like Yahweh did in the Old Testament. Or you could forgive him by you cutting off your own arm. If Jesus is God (he’s not) then God would kill himself to repay… himself? It’s stupid.

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because we personally all deserve death

Speak for yourself. You think you deserve death because an imaginary character Adam (an idea so thoroughly disproven by archaeology and biology) ate a forbidden fruit and then passed that sin onto you?
See Ezekiel 18:20

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The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

Think about how un-just it would be to make you pay for the sin of a guy who didn’t even know right from wrong at the time of the sin. I hope you are one of those people thinking you deserve death because Adam sinned and fell… if not, then I’m sorry for building a straw man.

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They will reject Him just as God’s chosen people did when they had Him crucified

It depends if you read the gospels written over 100 years after the alleged time of Jesus or if you believe Paul. In 1 Corinthians 2:8, it is the divine spirits called the Rulers (“Archontones” in Greek) who live in heaven (Ephesian 6:12) who killed Jesus and (according to Hebrews 9:11-12) the place where he was killed was in the temple in heaven. Some say the tale of the Jews and Pontius Pilate were a later invention that was written into the story in an attempt to demonize the Jews who were at odds with early Christians.

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God’s Son

I wish you guys would make up your mind. Is he “God the Son” or is he the “son of God”?
Answer: in the Bible Jesus is the son of God. He’s not a part of God and he isn’t God. He’s a very unique son of god among the other sons of God. Seriously read just the first couple sentences of Genesis 6.

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It all gets back to man trying to be like God, that which got us into this predicament in the first place.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about how scared the gods were that Adam had learned about procreation and how he could have eaten from the tree of Life and become an immortal? Or are you talking about how the people built a tower into Heaven in an attempt to “take over Heaven”, when the gods say that shite, if man can build a tower into heaven, there’s nothing he can’t do, so we have to confuse his language?

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