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re: Is the Christian God the same God of Judaism?

Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:06 am to
Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
9302 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:06 am to
quote:

Again I'll say that the Christian teaching is that God is three in persons and one in essence or nature. It's a mystery in the sense that there is no analogy to the Trinity in our human experience, which is why attempts to describe the Trinity with eggs, water, or other things wind up in heresy.


I don't agree with the Trinitarian formula. God is one. It's not hard to understand. Just as I am a father to my son, a son to my mom, and a brother to my brother, yet I am one person.
Same difference. Different manifestations of one God.
The Father in Creation. The son in Atonement. Holy Spirit working his will after Jesus.
Jesus said it himself, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.
Posted by Squirrelmeister
Member since Nov 2021
1876 posts
Posted on 11/26/23 at 7:27 am to
quote:

I don't agree with the Trinitarian formula.


Why would you or anyone? 3 distinct persons one in essence… Pretty dumb. It was thought up to try to reconcile the three Christian deities with the Old Testament of there being only one god that exists. It is trying to pound a square peg through a round hole.

The Trinity is one view on the subject - made up hundreds of years after Jesus - that beat out the other views in the 400s CE. The other views became “heresies”. The reason so many views existed is because those explanations are non biblical. The reference to that father, son, and spirit being the three who testify in John 5:7 in the KJV is a forgery. Other Bible verses saying to baptize in the name of the father, son, and spirit are also forgeries - the original was to baptize in the name of Jesus (only).

There are also many, many other gods in the Bible that other people ignore when claiming only one god exists. Why would Yahweh make so many commands to not worship other gods nor to serve them? There is no god beside Yahweh. Get it? It means literally there is no god on the side of Yahweh - no equal. It doesn’t mean those gods didn’t exist. What happened to David when he went fight for the Philistines? The Bible says he was forced to worship and serve the Philistine gods. Just read Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Psalm 82, and Psalm 89 for some good examples of many gods that the Bible authors believed to exist. There are hundreds more examples.

quote:

Just as I am a father to my son, a son to my mom, and a brother to my brother, yet I am one person.


Modalism. One of those heresies I mentioned.

ETA: as one poster put it, it doesn’t make sense for God and Jesus to be talking to each other, Jesus praying to God, Jesus calling out to god “why have you forsaken me?!” To me that goes for Trinitarianism as well, if Jesus and God are literally one (in essence). It is a fact that the OT and NT writers considered Theos and Kyrios as separate.

quote:

Jesus said it himself, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.


I’ve got to figure that line is an analogy. In John 1:18 it says no one has ever seen “God” (Theos). Plenty of times people have seen “the LORD” in the OT. Moses and Abraham saw him “face to face”. The NT authors called god the father (god most high, El Elyon) “God” or literally “Theos”. They called Jesus “LORD” or literally “Kyrios”. In the NT Kyrios is always son of Theos, just as in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 as the exact same Greek words are used in the Septuagint. You will not find once in your Bible Jesus being son of the LORD. Rather, Jesus IS LORD, son of God.

To be clear, the NT authors did believe Jesus to have come from heaven and he was fully divine. They just didn’t call Jesus “God”. That word “God” they reserved for the father. Jesus they called “Lord”. Throughout the NT the authors refer to Jesus as an (or the) great archangel - they believed he was the archon, the ruler, the archangel of Israel. If you’re interested in what the first temple and Enochian Jews believed about Yahweh and their worldview in general, a great book on the subject is “The Great Angel” by Margaret Barker.
This post was edited on 11/26/23 at 8:06 am
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