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re: U.S. blasts 'ungrateful' Zelensky: America 'deserves a degree of gratitude' for $113B

Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:49 pm to
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
26771 posts
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

I was simply showing that NATO/US support of Ukrainian membership was not "total fiction"

No one said that it was.

I said that this:
quote:

Nevermind that the US sealed Ukraine's fate by trying to ram them into NATO membership.

was total fiction.

Ukraine was no closer to NATO membership last February than it was in 2008 when NATO made the statement about Ukraine and Georgia. The thought that Russia suddenly decided to invade Ukraine in 2022 because Ukraine was going to join NATO is total fiction. It makes no sense, and it isn't based in reality.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 1:53 pm
Posted by The Baker
This is fine.
Member since Dec 2011
16187 posts
Posted on 7/12/23 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

The thought that Russia suddenly decided to invade Ukraine in 2022 because Ukraine was going to join NATO is total fiction. It makes no sense, and it isn't based in reality.


Because there was a renewed push in summer 2021 before the troop buildup (which was in response).

NATO.int
quote:


Brussels Summit Communiqué
Issued by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Brussels 14 June 2021

69. We reiterate the decision made at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process; we reaffirm all elements of that decision, as well as subsequent decisions, including that each partner will be judged on its own merits. We stand firm in our support for Ukraine’s right to decide its own future and foreign policy course free from outside interference. The Annual National Programmes under the NATO-Ukraine Commission (NUC) remain the mechanism by which Ukraine takes forward the reforms pertaining to its aspiration for NATO membership. Ukraine should make full use of all instruments available under the NUC to reach its objective of implementing NATO principles and standards. The success of wide-ranging, sustainable, and irreversible reforms, including combating corruption, promoting an inclusive political process, and decentralisation reform, based on democratic values, respect for human rights, minorities, and the rule of law, will be crucial in laying the groundwork for a prosperous and peaceful Ukraine. Further reforms in the security sector, including the reform of the Security Services of Ukraine, are particularly important. We welcome significant reforms already made by Ukraine and strongly encourage further progress in line with Ukraine’s international obligations and commitments. We will continue to provide practical support to reform in the security and defence sector, including through the Comprehensive Assistance Package. We will also continue to support Ukraine’s efforts to strengthen its resilience against hybrid threats, including through intensifying activities under the NATO-Ukraine Platform on Countering Hybrid Warfare. We welcome the cooperation between NATO and Ukraine with regard to security in the Black Sea region. The Enhanced Opportunities Partner status granted last year provides further impetus to our already ambitious cooperation and will promote greater interoperability, with the option of more joint exercises, training, and enhanced situational awareness. Military cooperation and capacity building initiatives between Allies and Ukraine, including the Lithuanian-Polish-Ukrainian Brigade, further reinforce this effort. We highly value Ukraine’s significant contributions to Allied operations, the NATO Response Force, and NATO exercises.


You're the one in fantasy land, not us.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 3:10 pm
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