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Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, I was hoping to get actual scientific research to support your previous posts. Most of these are claims, theories, and opinions by the different authors. These ideas could all be proven 100% correct, but as of now it is not.

most are from in house studies dude.

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I have also been involved with Dr. Jeff Dugas at Andrews Sports Medicine, along with Kevin Wilk(the pt that has rehabbed countless professionals in pretty much every sport), and also Dr. Glenn Fleisig that has published several research papers with Dr. Andrews, Kevin and Dr. Dugas.

Back to Randy at Florida Armory. His program involves much of the training metrics you list from the other groups. He uses the motus to measure stress on the elbow and utilizes film to correct biomechanical flaws.

Like others, his program works on stability, external and internal rotation, strengthening to help protect the joint as much as possible.

All of that being said, he will tell you, just like several of the articles you linked, that UCL tears are not a one pitch injury. It is cumulative, thus overuse is involved.

He will also tell you that you can do everything "right" and still get the injury.

100% i wasnt saying you wont still get it, but more most of these are because individuals are weak and are using arm over speed without the ability properly decelerate. just like most of the shoulder injuries we see now are from being stupid strong in the ER and not having the ability to decelerate due to ER/IR imbalance.

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Now, to the measurements you listed with all of these wild claims of 480% decrease in chance of injury, etc.. There is no science to back it up. It is just a claim by the author. There is no scientific study to back it up. Just his "survey" of athletes. That doesn't cut the mustard. Sorry.

no it was from an in house study on 1000 athletes that have come through ATP. Those that met those metrics vs those that didnt and the injuries that happened.

there is scientific studies because we have no way of measuring what causes the ucl tear but we can use the motus and other items to know that the ucl can not support the forces placed on it. pretty simple to know what is supporting the rest of the force. but you wont see much outside of in house studies because their is no funding for it.

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Also, these measurements are not obtainable for the vast majority of baseball players until well after puberty and until they have fully developed. By then, they have years of baseball behind them. The UCL has been subjected to microtears the entire time.

BS. just requires starting them training early. parents are scared for their child to lift heavy but doesnt think twice about them jumping off the side of the truck....yet the latter exposes the body to way more force.

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That is why so many advocate getting several months of rest each year from competitive baseball and from high leverage throwing. Especially during growth phases of physical development. You can strength train all you want, but if there is not adequate rest, you are still at a higher risk.

and im ok with that but i see more get the injury from being way way underprepared than cumulative overlal throws.

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Dr. Dugas told me is sees countless kids that get injured while they are having large growth spurts and when their body as not developed. This supports your claims of physical development helping to prevent injury. The problem is that every kids goes through this process and at various times and speeds of development. They are not going to stop playing. And, you can't get every kid to stop pitching. Although, as a parent, I would have my boys not pitch for a few years during this time.

and he is 10000% right. kids may be fine, 3 weeks and 2 inches of growth later and its a different kid. these things have to be monitored by the parents and its why im so big on the armcare.com app. its simple, either at risk or you are not.

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Dr. Mike Marshall??? Wow, haven't heard that name in years. He is a loon. I am guessing you happened to see his article you linked that went against Andrews and Fleisig. Go look at the video on his site from years ago and how a pitcher is supposed to pitch to prevent UCL injury. It is comical. And is the reason that I have yet to see a single person pitching the way he advocates at any level of baseball.

ill be honest im not very familiar with him, but have seen some of his stuff. some is good, some not so much, certainly havent seen any of his viedoes though.

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All that being said, I commend you doing everything you can to educate yourself and protect your players( I assume to work with players?) All we can do is do our best to help them with the information we have. But, there is no surefire method to stop this.

i only work with my own kids and a select few others. strength coaching is a hobby for me, but do have tons of certs. baseball strength training just happens to be a passion.

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IMO, players should have their biomechanics evaluated and measured. (that is not possible as not very many have that capability). They should work to train appropriately starting as young as possible to protect their arm. (Again, not everyone has access to people that know how to do this.) They should take off adequate time from pitching, train, ramp up for the season, and be PO's if they really want to protect their arm. (not feasible for a lot of kids with small high school teams).

agree with all of this

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Lastly, not push hard for velocity until their bodies are developed.

disagree completely with this as it tends to force you into a much smaller time frame and into riskier behavior. aging curve is 3.6ish, you need to be striving to get 50% or more better than that but it needs to be from completely safe behaviors. logn toss and pull downs should be the riskiest thing you do. i do agree with weighted balls and implements as part of arm care and warm up but not velo until later

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Even with all of this, injuries will still occur. You just give yourself a chance.

was pretty much my point. i never said that you could prevent every injury just most you see....those guys are weak and weight is very low for height.

we prolly agree on 90% of things, maybe more. i think you took my post as saying you could prevent ucl from happening if you do these items....if it cam off as that...i apologize.

i was in a hurry on many of the above post and i certainly didnt want to come off as saying .....hey i got the key to prevent all ucl injuries...anything but.

but i am a huge believer that if you can meet the metrics from the 90mph formula, can squat 1.8x bodyweight @ 0.6 m/s from a box 1" above parellel, have balanced ER/IR and have good effecient mechanics....then the reduce the chance of a ucl tear greatly. especially when combined with 80 or less innings in a calander year below 16u and 100 after and combinged with in season training and an on ramp with proper arm care/warm up.....year you reduce the chance big time big time.