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re: Can’t congress pass a law making abortion legal nationwide?

Posted on 6/25/22 at 10:31 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
425080 posts
Posted on 6/25/22 at 10:31 am to
quote:

I can buy marijuana for recreational use in Colorado. I cannot in Louisiana.

It's illegal, federally, in both states.

quote:

The commerce clause doesn’t permit congress to regulate all economic activity, only interstate economic activity.

Read Heart of Atlanta and Wickard again.

Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
99640 posts
Posted on 6/25/22 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Read Heart of Atlanta and Wickard again.


quote:

Wickard


Effectively dead with Sebelius (necessary and proper/IC not constitutional basis for compelling a private contract) as well as Lopez and Morrison.

That's not to say that ICC is dead, but Wickard was it's apex and there's been retrenchment since.
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
15533 posts
Posted on 6/25/22 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

It’s illegal, federally, in both states [sale of Mary Jane as controlled substance]


Yes. The federal government prohibits the sale in interstate commerce, so it’s illegal federally in all states when sold in interstate commerce.

It is illegal under Louisiana Law for me to buy it from my next door neighbor for recreational use.

It is also illegal under federal law for me to buy it from a Vendor in Denver over the internet and the have it shipped to my house in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

The reason the federal “ban” isn’t enforceable in Colorado, is that federal law can’t ban legal economic activity In Colorado. Much like Federal Law Can’t ban abortions in Colorado. Or legalize them in Louisiana.

We agree. We both think that the way that the commerce clause is interpreted is wrong. I’m not doubting that Congress has used it as a means for federal overreach, and that certain laws congress passed under this court sanctioned abuse of authority remain on the books. Whatever the decision may be on various applications of the commerce clause - doesn’t mean the interpretation is the right one.

The Lopez and Violence against women act cases, noted a jurisprudential trend towards narrowing the interpretation of the freaking commerce clause. The court has become MORE conservative since those cases were decided.

If Congress tried to use its commerce clause power to regulate abortion as an economic activity within the states that banned it; there is no doubt in my mind that the US Gvt will find itself sued by the state of Louisiana or Mississippi or Texas or Missouri or Utah or Alabama or probably all of them.

As I read Dobbs - the current majority of the Court does not interpret abortion as economic activity that is subject to regulation by congress. I
could be wrong. But it did not address its application.

However, there is no indication whatever in the opinion that EITHER Federal Ban on abortion or a Federal Legalization of abortion would work. The only laws discussed in the decision were laws passed by state legislatures, indicating to me that if pressed the Court would find that the activity is health and welfare issue traditionally reserved to state governments.

And while we’re at it . . . Unless there’s a state law prohibiting it, abort away even after your kid pops out and call it abortion, and you’re good; let God deal with you. Congress doesn’t have the power to create rights. In the absence of a constitutional pronouncement of illegality by a state or Federal Gvt, you can do whatever TF you want.

And PS I’ll re-read the Mart case.
This post was edited on 6/25/22 at 2:48 pm
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
15533 posts
Posted on 6/26/22 at 5:12 am to
Wednesday

quote:

The commerce clause doesn’t permit congress to regulate all economic activity, only interstate economic activity.


Slow Flow

quote:

Read Heart of Atlanta and Wickard again.


Heart of Atlanta:

quote:

the determinative test of the exercise of power by the Congress under the Commerce Clause is simply whether the activity sought to be regulated is "commerce which concerns more States than one" and has a real and substantial relation to the national interest. (At 256)


(Court construed hotels as a channel of interstate commerce, which Congress has pwr to regulate. States can’t burden the channels even if they only serve local ppl.)

By contrast -Lopez and Violence Against women case held that congress cannot govern private conduct unless the conduct is economic activity btwn citizens of different states. Court found that Heart of ATL didn’t apply bc the regulation involved in Heart of ATL involved a channel of commerce (hotels).

All 3 cases involved an exercise of federal regulatory power, not state. Federal power under commerce clause does NOT extend to regulation of local conduct. VAW case and Lopez

Violence against women case:

quote:

We accordingly reject the argument that Congress may regulate noneconomic, violent criminal conduct based solely on that conduct’s aggregate effect on interstate commerce. The Constitution requires a distinction between what is truly national and what is truly local. Lopez,514 U. S.,at 568 (citing Jones & Laughlin Steel, 301 U. S., at 30). In recognizing this fact we preserve one of the few principles that has been consistent since the Clause was adopted. The regulation and punishment of intrastate violence that is not directed at the instrumentalities, channels, or goods involved in interstate commerce has always been the province of the States.


Conclusion-
Congress cannot regulate private conduct under the commerce clause that is not economic activity affecting interstate commerce. Ergo, congress cannot regulate abortions under the commerce clause. While transactions and employees may be involved, the conduct involved is local. Congress cannot use the commerce clause to order States to provide abortions.

If Congress wants to regulate abortions, they will have to find another way than the commerce clause.

Plus, the 14th A only permits legislation from congress relating to state legislatures. See: Civil Rights Cases in 1800s. So if abortions were a right under 14a (which they are not per Dobbs) congress could order states to make them legal. Abortions are not a 14A right under Dobbs, so congress is SOL there too. The question is left to the states.
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