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Message
re: Voter ID
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:38 pm to The Spleen
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:38 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Maybe so, but if it prevents just one person from legally casting a vote, then I am against it.
But if it doesn't prevent 10 illegal votes, it's ok?
quote:
Both are photo ID's that are issued by government agencies. What they actually allow the holder to do with it shouldn't matter. It was Texas that proposed that, and luckily I'm pretty sure the concealed carry permit was struck from the bill before it passed.
I'm not sure how most university ID's are today, but mine (back in the early 2000's) could be faked very, very easily. Not all forms of govt ID are created equal, i.e. anti-fraud devices such as holograms, watermarks, etc. My CC permit is probably fairly easy to fake, but it's also not considered a proper form of ID other than it's intended purpose.
1
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:41 pm to AUX3
I'm a big fan of the finger dipped into ink.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:50 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
But if it doesn't prevent 10 illegal votes, it's ok?
Well that goes back to how often in-person voter fraud actually occurs. It's a high risk, low reward endeavor for someone to commit, and there really aren't that many reported cases of it happening. I think there are better ways to handle it, and I think election fraud committed by both parties is a much bigger problem. The most common form of documented voter/election fraud is candidates forging signatures on petitions to get on a ballot.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:58 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Well that goes back to how often in-person voter fraud actually occurs. It's a high risk, low reward endeavor for someone to commit, and there really aren't that many reported cases of it happening. I think there are better ways to handle it, and I think election fraud committed by both parties is a much bigger problem. The most common form of documented voter/election fraud is candidates forging signatures on petitions to get on a ballot.
I agree with some of that to an extent.
I'll never forget this CNN clip from election day 2008.
LINK
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:04 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
There are a number of older people, especially blacks, that don't even have a birth certificate. Many have gotten through life without an ID. I agree it's hard to imagine doing so, but people have done it.
That is a very, very small percentage and is the exception, not the norm, so that can't e be used as some sort of rallying cry.
I dunno about that. i really think everyone who is eligible to vote should be able to vote.
But you know, I like democracy.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:09 pm to AUX3
I really can't see any logical reasoning why we shouldn't require an ID to vote. As a legal American citizen, you need an ID to function day to day. Shouldn't we want people who don't have IDs, to get one? I simply cannot understand why anyone would not want to require an ID to vote unless you support voter fraud.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:10 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
I dunno about that. i really think everyone who is eligible to vote should be able to vote.
But you know, I like democracy.
It's no different than having to get a permit to carry a weapon in certain parts of the country. It's a right guaranteed by the Constitution but those rights are limited due to concerns by the public. Or how yelling fire in a crowded theater is considered not to be a restriction of 1A rights. There are restrictions on your rights as a citizen just as your buddy Harry Reid always point out. There's the democracy you live in.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:15 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It's no different than having to get a permit to carry a weapon in certain parts of the country.
well there isn't a constitutional right to vote. But its a core part of our democracy.
I think if you can solve the problem (i doubt it needs to be solved) with other methods, mainly dying a finger purple that doesn't place this burden why wouldn't you do that?
The reason this is a hot issue with republicans is they want to suppress the vote.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:26 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
The reason this is a hot issue with republicans is they want to suppress the vote
This comment right here is the main crux of the entire argument from your side.
There is absolutely no valid and logical argument for being against someone having to prove who they are in order to cast a vote. Every single argument is some sort of emotional plea.
"You hate minorities!"
"You hate the poor!"
As I've stated before, these groups that claim to help the poor and minorities do absolutely nothing to get people ID's. They'll bend over backwards and spend all kinds of money to get them registered and bring them to the polls but they won't lift a finger to get those same people ID's? Why? It's so they can continue to play on emotion and portray these people as perpetual victims.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:35 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
There is absolutely no valid and logical argument for being against someone having to prove who they are in order to cast a vote.
you are right, its all a matter of what is the bar? is it self identification?
quote:
As I've stated before, these groups that claim to help the poor and minorities do absolutely nothing to get people ID's. They'll bend over backwards and spend all kinds of money to get them registered and bring them to the polls but they won't lift a finger to get those same people ID's? Why? It's so they can continue to play on emotion and portray these people as perpetual victims.
why is it that only republican states pass these laws?
I honestly don't care that much to tell you the truth. I think its just on the edges, it just feels wrong.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:42 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
why is it that only republican states pass these laws?
Maybe they're the only ones who want to stop the potential for fraud. Why aren't any Dem states concerned with preventing voter fraud?
Why not start a campaign to get people proper ID's? What's the absolute worse that could happen, people have legal ID's? Oh, the horror!
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:44 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Why aren't any Dem states concerned with preventing voter fraud?
they probably realize that voter fraud is a pretty big non-issue.
quote:
Why not start a campaign to get people proper ID's?
go for it! i think its a good project worthy of your time.
i really dont care that much.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:47 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
they probably realize that voter fraud is a pretty big non-issue.
there were several convictions last election. it happens a lot.
The ids are free...whats the big deal.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:48 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
why is it that only republican states pass these laws?
Probably because Republicans rely on voter fraud much much less than Democrats.
Despite your spin, the Dem motive is pretty clearly one that involves fraud. Do you truly believe the anti-constitution party has people's right to vote anywhere near their list of reasons for not wanting voter IDs? Give me a break.
Describe the hypothetical person that would be denied the right to vote with a voter ID law in place? Give as much detail as possible to explain why they would be unable to obtain an ID.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:50 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
they probably realize that voter fraud is a pretty big non-issue.
Possibly, or they realize that voter anonymity is crucial to the success of their "community organization" AKA ACORN groups.
quote:
go for it! i think its a good project worthy of your time
I just might.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 3:00 pm to GRTiger
quote:Do you know many campaign managers? A lot are pretty soulless people who would do anything and work for either party. There is no reason to believe that either party is more or less involved in dirty campaigning or corruption.
Probably because Republicans rely on voter fraud much much less than Democrats
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