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re: Paging Aubie101 re: "Once saved always saved"

Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:16 pm to
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13371 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

But I guess you’ll come back and tell me that the priest is really the one doing the absolution. Which is equally silly


he's acting in the person of Christ. Priest himself doesnt absolve sins, Christ absolves sin through him
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 8:17 pm
Posted by wfallstiger
Wichita Falls, Texas
Member since Jun 2006
11682 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:21 pm to
Am not debating his status as one of the 12....calling into question his belief in the context of this post.

Again, how does a Believer allow Satan into one's life as did Judas? It does not work, fit. Peter, on the other hand, did not allow Satan that manner of sway.

And, if Judas was a Believer why didn't he avail himself to the same forgiveness extended Peter?
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 8:22 pm
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
914 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:26 pm to
quote:

When you were a Catholic, you thought that by saying a Hail Mary prayer that you was absolved of sin?


I haven't caught up on this entire thread yet, but skimming through, I noticed this strawman. Penance does not absolve sin, and is actually not required, even when the Priest assigns you one.

ETA, I meant to respond to Revelator stating that Catholics believe saying so many Hail Mary's and Our Father's absolves us of our sins.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 8:28 pm
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
58259 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:27 pm to
quote:

he's acting in the person of Christ. Priest himself doesnt absolve sins, Christ absolves sin through him


Which is useless. We are told we can come boldly to the Thorne of Grace through the blood of Christ, because he is our mediator. The priesthood has been abolished and we can go straight to the Father through Christ.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all of our unrighteousness.
It’s right there in the Bible.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
58259 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:29 pm to
quote:

Penance does not absolve sin, and is actually not required, even when the Priest assigns you one.


So basically, the priest is just giving you busywork for kicks
Posted by dchog
Pea ridge
Member since Nov 2012
21478 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:30 pm to
I don't remember but did the Bible say that Judas showed regret?
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
914 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:30 pm to
quote:

I can’t tell if you’re deliberately missing the point or not. The example has nothing to do with sola scriptura.


Your question about how Catholics interpret that passage was in response to Champagne speaking against sola scriptura. I agree with you though, that passage, which Protestant Christians typically quote to defend their view of sola scriptura, does not support sola scriptura at all.
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13371 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:31 pm to
quote:

It’s right there in the Bible.


it's also right there in the Bible after Jesus's resurrection John 20:23

ETA:

of course you'll tell me after the apostles died, this ability of forgiving sins was completely disappeared from reality be ause they weren't jewish and dont perform signs or some shite
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 8:34 pm
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13371 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

but did the Bible say that Judas showed regret?




if I remember correctly, he tried to give back the silver
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
914 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

So basically, the priest is just giving you busywork for kicks


No, it's meant to help you reflect on your sins, and hopefully not continue to commit them. Every priest I've ever confessed to has given penance that actually dealt with my specific mortal sins, and wasn't some vanilla prescription of Hail Mary's, though I do acknowledge that does happen.
Posted by Knartfocker
Member since Jun 2020
1372 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

It’s right there in the Bible


It's also right there in the Bible that Jesus established the church hierarchy (which includes priests)...
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13371 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

It's also right there in the Bible that Jesus established the church hierarchy (which includes priests)...


and then like the first 300 years of church history before the Bible was compiled.
Posted by wfallstiger
Wichita Falls, Texas
Member since Jun 2006
11682 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:35 pm to
Yes, he tried to return the silver. Was told too bad, too sad.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
58259 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

of course you'll tell me after the apostles disappeared, this ability of forgiving sins was completely disappeared from reality be ause they weren't jewish and dont perform signs or some shite


And you’ll tell me Peter was the first pope and your priest also has the ability to forgive sins because he’s following in the progression of the Disciples or something like this.
I’ve got better things to do than bang
my head against the wall with Catholics. Believe what you want.
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13371 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:40 pm to
quote:

And you’ll tell me Peter was the first pope and your priest also has the ability to forgive sins because he’s following in the progression of the Disciples


its quiet literally in the Bible

you have an interpretation of the Bible that was conceived 1500 years after Christ died and resurrected.

Tell me how the Eucharist is symbolical and not literal after reading John 6

Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
914 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:47 pm to
quote:

Tell me how the Eucharist is symbolical and not literal after reading John 6


It's called eisegesis. First, you start with your theological presupposition. Then, when you study scripture or the writings of the church fathers, you accept the plain meaning of these writings when it supports your position, and twist it to support your position when it doesn't
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
21998 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

I agree with you though, that passage, which Protestant Christians typically quote to defend their view of sola scriptura, does not support sola scriptura at all.


I agree, but what do you think it supports?

ETA You're correct that it was asked out of context with the topic at hand; it didn't seem like something that warrants its own topic and I was curious. And it's an honest question, not some attempt at a gotcha, although this thread may be well past that point.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 8:52 pm
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
914 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 9:00 pm to
quote:

I agree, but what do you think it supports?


It supports several things. Given the context, Paul travels to Thessalonica and the Jews there reject his oral preaching after examining the scriptures, but the Bereans accept it as sound doctrine. So it
supports the Boreans being more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, since they accept Paul's message that Christ is the Messiah through the Tradition of the new covenant church (oral preaching). It supports the idea that Sacred Tradition was on par with the OT scriptures as being God's word. As a result, it supports apostolic authority.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 9:02 pm
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
59250 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 9:07 pm to
quote:

Revelator


You're such a hateful person when it comes to Catholics. Were you abused in the Church or something? It's obvious that there's something going on.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
21998 posts
Posted on 11/14/23 at 10:01 pm to
quote:

It supports several things. Given the context, Paul travels to Thessalonica and the Jews there reject his oral preaching after examining the scriptures, but the Bereans accept it as sound doctrine. So it
supports the Boreans being more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, since they accept Paul's message


Wow. That's ........ a take.

"10 The brothers[b] immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."

They were more noble because they didn't just accept the authority at face value, they compared what was being taught to scripture. It supports the opposite of apostolic authority.
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