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re: Paging Aubie101 re: "Once saved always saved"

Posted on 11/19/23 at 2:59 pm to
Posted by Squirrelmeister
Member since Nov 2021
1883 posts
Posted on 11/19/23 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Book of Tobit's content argues against "soul sleep" and how that historical information is used to guide the interpretation of what you see in the Epistles.


Honestly I don’t need to interpret what 1 Thessalonians 4 means. Paul uses clear language, to me. He assures his congregation that the dead will be resurrected- they did not even know that much at that point. That was their very concern. Paul is clear that when Jesus comes, he will resurrect the dead and transformer the dead first then the alive into heavenly bodies. It’s clear and there is nothing really to interpret. If you want to go find another book that says something different and believe that, great.

quote:

For many hundreds of years after Christ, all of Christendom considered Tobit to be inspired Scripture. That's why Christendom for many hundreds of years considered "soul sleep" to be foreign to Christendom.


It’s funny. Something I heard in church today is called the Nicene Creed. There’s this part at the end that says “We look forward to the resurrection of the dead.” Everything you read in the Nicene Creed was put in there specifically to settle disputes of theology and Christology. To me, the Nicene Creed supports 1 Thessalonians. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, Christians help the view of soul sleep.

quote:

Now, today's Protestants refuse to admit that Tobit and the other books that the Prot leaders tore out of the Bible in the 1500s were considered to be inspired Scripture by all of Christendom for about 1,500 years, but they are wrong about that


You should be equally ashamed of the Catholics who removed the book of 1 Enoch from the Christian canon. That book is alluded to hundreds of times and quoted nearly word for word many times throughout the New Testament. The earliest Christians, and pre-Christian groups like the Essenes of Qumran, held 1 Enoch in the highest authority. The book with the most numbers of copies found in the Dead Sea scrolls was none other than Enoch. The Essene Quran community were awaiting the destruction of the whore of Babylon (the Jerusalem temple built and funded by Cyrus the great, the LORD’s messiah of Isaiah 45:1), and the return of the divine anointed (messiah) king, and baptized their members and referred to themselves as “children of light” in the same way Christians today do. 1 Enoch is scripture in the same way the gospel of John is.

quote:

They have the right to their own opinion, but they do not have the right to their own set of facts that they might care to fabricate.


Agreed. Same applies to you and me!
Posted by Crimson1st
Birmingham, AL
Member since Nov 2010
20278 posts
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:31 pm to
I’ve been mulling over this thread a bit. I wanted to ask you this Champagne…according to what you take from the Bible, who created Earth? Let’s just run with that…who created Earth?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48629 posts
Posted on 11/20/23 at 9:30 am to
quote:

Honestly I don’t need to interpret what 1 Thessalonians 4 means. Paul uses clear language, to me.


It just seems to me like you are being too closed-minded here. On this particular issue of "soul sleep" IMHO we should look at many documents that might illuminate the issue.

Whenever any particular theological issue is debatable, I will always refer back to the Roman Catholic Catechism as my own authoritative and final resource for research on the issue. It's very well researched and I respect that.

But, I do enjoy learning about the other viewpoints.
This post was edited on 11/20/23 at 9:38 am
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48629 posts
Posted on 11/20/23 at 9:32 am to
quote:

I’ve been mulling over this thread a bit. I wanted to ask you this Champagne…according to what you take from the Bible, who created Earth? Let’s just run with that…who created Earth?


The beginning and the end of what I believe is all right here in the Catechism:

I respect the amount of research and work put into creating this remarkable document.

LINK

This particular article from Catholic Answers on the question you pose seems very interesting. It is an interesting question. It's probably unwise for most folks to try to answer your question right off the top of their heads without doing a bit of research first.

LINK

There is a definite debate among Protestants on the issue of whether the Universe was created out of nothing. The above referenced article discusses that debate.


This post was edited on 11/20/23 at 10:20 am
Posted by Crimson1st
Birmingham, AL
Member since Nov 2010
20278 posts
Posted on 11/22/23 at 10:13 am to
quote:

The beginning and the end of what I believe is all right here in the Catechism:



Ok, I will try to read up on this later but sometimes for simplicity's sake, we can get to more truth by keeping things simple.

So again I ask, who made Earth? Please answer this simply as I am wanting to build off your answer a bit based off your previous posts, things that you have said directly back to me in this thread.

Also, you posted a couple of Catholic links...are you Catholic?
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