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Started By
Message
re: EMP: Is the Threat Real?
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:12 pm to scrooster
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:12 pm to scrooster
Hospitals would not just be overwhelmed. They would be completely non functional. No power equals no CT, MRI, lab tests. Nothing. We would instantly be back to the 1800's. And I promise very few doctors would be as functional as the doctors back then.
4
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:16 pm to rantfan
quote:
hardware is all ran on big batteries
I work in power production. We use DC for back up for controls...but those batteries are rendered useless for long term without AC chargers.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:20 pm to Dr Dawg
quote:
Hospitals would not just be overwhelmed. They would be completely non functional. No power equals no CT, MRI, lab tests. Nothing. We would instantly be back to the 1800's. And I promise very few doctors would be as functional as the doctors back then.
You'd be surprised.
Most large hospitals these days are equipped with hardened backup surgical units and ICUs.
Also, FWIW, the government would immediately requisition civilian refrigeration trucks for various purposes ... hospital use mostly but to include body storage. You'd be amazed at how often FEMA meets with hospital admins all over the country to inspect their backup systems, check fuel storage, count folded body bags in storage, etc.
I forget what the cutoff is or where it lies but I think it is anything over fifty beds has to have a hardened backup system in place capable of sustaining itself for three days off grid and I believe there is talk that the standard may be raised to ten days soon.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:24 pm to scrooster
I'm afraid it is you that would be surprised. With all the reimbursement cuts, there is no money for stuff like that in most hospitals. 10% would be an high estimate for the percent of all hospitals prepared. I highly doubt outside of DDEMAC in Augusta and maybe one or two others there are any others in GA with such a set up.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:24 pm to hesterhamma
quote:
I work in power production. We use DC for back up for controls...but those batteries are rendered useless for long term without AC charge
Well I know for a fact that the telephone and internet computer systems are all hardwired to batteries none of the computer systems run on AC. The systems are very low voltage machines.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:25 pm to hesterhamma
quote:
I work in power production. We use DC for back up for controls...but those batteries are rendered useless for long term without AC chargers.
... or solar. Or at least I hear there are solar backups on the way for DC powered controls, are there not?
Also, at least at V.C. Summer, they are switching over from deep cycle lead acid to lithium ion, or is it the new Lithium Ion Oxide or Lithium Oxide Ion ... or something like that, soon?
I know the solar farm at VC Summer, for station use only, is supposed to be up and operational by September of this year. I've heard the panels are already sitting down there in one of the out buildings they're just waiting on the new batteries and inverters from Australia.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:28 pm to Dr Dawg
Hospitals can be run off of huge generators if need be. There is a company in my town that is known powering the Super Halftime Shows and and other big events with their systems.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:39 pm to rantfan
I am not saying you are wrong. But there has to be some type of charging system even if there is low voltage pull, maybe solar as Scrooster said. Our battery system is only used for back up, but have to stay on a constant charge because they fail otherwise.
This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:46 pm to JawjaTigah
WWW.LDSAVOW
This site is for the latter day saints (Mormons). It is open to non-Mormons and has a ton of information on being prepared. There is a small monthly fee to join but after a month of two you should have enough information to get started. They are not just preparing for an EMP, but also natural disasters or just losing your job and having food on hand to survive.
People laugh at preppers all the time. But if the SHTF the preppers will have the last laugh.
I look at it like insurance. I never buy anything for my preps that I do not already use. I rotate my foods and other long term stuff.
Another place for good information is the USDA. This guide has great information for you to can and preserve foods. I have a large garden and I really try to not let anything go to waste.
USDA
This site is for the latter day saints (Mormons). It is open to non-Mormons and has a ton of information on being prepared. There is a small monthly fee to join but after a month of two you should have enough information to get started. They are not just preparing for an EMP, but also natural disasters or just losing your job and having food on hand to survive.
People laugh at preppers all the time. But if the SHTF the preppers will have the last laugh.
I look at it like insurance. I never buy anything for my preps that I do not already use. I rotate my foods and other long term stuff.
Another place for good information is the USDA. This guide has great information for you to can and preserve foods. I have a large garden and I really try to not let anything go to waste.
USDA
Posted on 5/6/17 at 1:55 pm to Dr Dawg
quote:
I'm afraid it is you that would be surprised. With all the reimbursement cuts, there is no money for stuff like that in most hospitals. 10% would be an high estimate for the percent of all hospitals prepared. I highly doubt outside of DDEMAC in Augusta and maybe one or two others there are any others in GA with such a set up.
I was just in the University Hospital backups building a few weeks ago ... it's one of the finest in the country. I came across James Brown Blvd, turned left on I think it was 12th or 13th, then right and it was somewhere in there - impressive facility, state of the art.
So I don't wish to completely disagree with you, but I think maybe perhaps, you are unaware of some things within some of those systems.
The backup power systems at Palmetto Richland in Columbia and Lexington Medical in Lexington are nothing short of extraordinary. Both were designed, installed, and are maintained by the same well-known company.
But I hear what you are saying.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 2:09 pm to Dr Dawg
quote:
Hospitals would not just be overwhelmed. They would be completely non functional. No power equals no CT, MRI, lab tests. Nothing. We would instantly be back to the 1800's. And I promise very few doctors would be as functional as the doctors back then.
Hey listen for a second if you will ... I wanna redo on this post if I may?
I really do get where you are coming from, I do. And even with all the backups in place, it's not enough if the shtf. It's not. I agree. There would be a real mess, especially in the big cities.
We've got three doctors in our group - an Internist, a urologist who was a surgeon/Internist/GP before that, and an orthopedist. (We've got a husband and wife dentist/oral surgeon pair as well.). But we've invested in military grade field hospital equipment over the years that would hopefully get our little group by in a pinch.
Of course, when you run out of antibiotics, anesthetics and other pain killers real problems ensue.
If you are in Augusta you should consider coming up for s visit sometime ... if you have other appreciable skills as well. Our Internist is also a helluva personable guy and his wife is a stone cold prepper. Our urologist is handy with firearms as is his wife and they are both preppers - she is a financial wiz as well.
We've got mechanics, electricians, farmers ... and we'll circle the wagons if need be. Hopefully it'll never come to that but, in the meantime, it's a neat little group.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 2:11 pm to scrooster
A science fiction novel - "Lucifer's Hammer" sone years ago also supposes a plausible post apocalyptic society due to a giant meteor strike. Lakes full of bodies and other pleasantries. Gotta get your herd of sheep if you have diabetes. And guns. Get guns.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 2:26 pm to rantfan
quote:
Hospitals can be run off of huge generators if need be.
Fuel source would be terminated. I would think most are natural gas gens, nat gas pipelines are controlled on DCS systems that would fail to closed valve positions.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 2:58 pm to scrooster
quote:
I was just in the University Hospital backups building a few weeks ago ... it's one of the finest in the country. I came across James Brown Blvd, turned left on I think it was 12th or 13th, then right and it was somewhere in there - impressive facility, state of the art. So I don't wish to completely disagree with you, but I think maybe perhaps, you are unaware of some things within some of those systems. The backup power systems at Palmetto Richland in Columbia and Lexington Medical in Lexington are nothing short of extraordinary. Both were designed, installed, and are maintained by the same well-known company. But I hear what you are saying.
Yes the very big facilities like University Hospital will have that. But most of the health care in this country is delivered in small and medium sized hospitals. And they do not.
Also take into account the computer systems and lab machines are going to vulnerable in even the biggest facilities. So no way to communicate inside the hospital no lab tests available to evaluate patients and no blood available to transfuse. It will be an absolute mess.
I promise you every year the flu season nearly overwhelms the medical system in this country. There are multiple instances of patients held in the er for days waiting to be admitted just with that. Our health care system is no way shape or form going to be handle a country wide mass casualty situation or massive loss of power. You will be on your own.
This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:05 pm to scrooster
quote:
If you are in Augusta you should consider coming up for s visit sometime ... if you have other appreciable skills as well. Our Internist is also a helluva personable guy and his wife is a stone cold prepper. Our urologist is handy with firearms as is his wife and they are both preppers - she is a financial wiz as well.
I am a Board Certified ER doc who loves to read old civil war era medical books. Also a lifetime sustenance farmer from my childhood. And I know my way around a firearm being raised and lived in the south my whole life. So I would be interested in meeting up sometime. I have given these type of scenarios some thought because I believe it is inevitable that something is going to happen. Just don't know when or what.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:06 pm to scrooster
quote:nonsense. the american military is FAR more prepared for such an eventuality than any other. that alone would protect the country from absolute collapse, albeit under a military state. moreover, they would retaliate in a way that other countries could barely survive. america would most assuredly fare better if such a thing were to happen.
China and Russia figure their general population would survive such an attack far better than ours
many people don't realize the absurdity that china, yes china, JUST got their FIRST aircraft carrier a few years ago. and it is a converted, older ship that they purchased. the thing has barely completed sea trials. go look up which countries have what. it's astonishing.
these countries understand retaliation would be absolutely horrific and essentially fatal.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:06 pm to OnTheGeaux
quote:
Countermeasure preps complete in this household.
Care to share what those countermeasures are?
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:12 pm to tarzana
quote:precisely. we have thousands of satellites watching every square inch of the earth. no one is moving something like that without us knowing WAY in advance. there would be some serious pre-emptive communication/action going on.
Sure it's possible, but would be extremely difficult for even a state actor like Russia or China to pull off with devastating consequences.
another reason why the scenario is basically impossible is because every developed nation in the world knows they would be cutting off the gravy train. america's rising tide floats all boats. for example, china would lose their biggest junkie. no freakin way they eliminate their number 1 customer who is almost single handedly keeping their economic infrastructure afloat. plus, there's the prospect of m.a.d. and nobody wants that except for desert dwelling jihadis.
quote:yep. it's much more likely these microagressions are going to continue for the foreseeable future. countries want upward mobility through leverage without destroying civilization, i.e. ransomeware.
It would be much easier to shut down electrical grids and microchips with malware than to explode nuclear weapons hundreds of miles up in the ionosphere with pinpoint accuracy.
This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:18 pm to Dr Dawg
quote:this seems like an unbelievable exaggeration. i worked in the hospital environment for 15 years and i have a relative who built/ran multiple hospitals. if you don't meet the standards, they will shut you down with the quickness and you better believe administrators are lighting butts on fire when the auditors are coming around. the entire year's worth of facility planning/funding is almost solely predicated on passing these inspections and meeting standards. we were even coached on scripts if were were approached by any of the auditors. it is serious.
10% would be an high estimate for the percent of all hospitals prepared.
Posted on 5/6/17 at 3:21 pm to flyAU
quote:
I have one over my house. I suggest you do too.
What do you mean by "over my house"?
What protection will that give you if the public electrical systems stop functioning?
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