re: When did cops go from protect and serve to comply or die?

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A police appraoching any situation does and SHOULD do so with the mindset that this person might attempt to kill them. That's the nature of the work.

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Ok, we're getting somewhere. And you're right. But don't you see how that tactic could turn the public you serve against you? Or at least their perception of you? The public at large is not a deep thinking entity. It's reactionary. And trying to change that perception under the guise of self preservation isn't going to work, even if it's true (and maybe appropriate).

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Once a dialogue is started, then yes it's absolutely reasonable to expect the officer treat you with the same respect that is given back to them.

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That doesn't always happen, because...humans.

But yea, you're right.

Uh. It's not a few stories. It's a lot. Factor in that the "good" cops,DAs, judges, etc let the bad cops run amok with very little penalty I wouldn't say it's a minority. The police in this nation need a top to bottom overhaul from PR, policy, to turning in bad cops and minimum mandatory prison sentences for those that break the law.

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Why does being shot even ENTER THE frickING DISCUSSION

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Look at the Original post ^

Maybe that's why you are so upset....you don't pay attention.

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you've missed the entire point. A police appraoching any situation does and SHOULD do so with the mindset that this person might attempt to kill them. That's the nature of the work. Once a dialogue is started, then yes it's absolutely reasonable to expect the officer treat you with the same respect that is given back to them. But when first approaching a vehicle or a scene, the officer has no idea of your intentions.

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Allow me to play devil's advocate here. We both agree 99/100 times a traffic stop is "routine". The other 1% is where the danger comes from. Because of this, you feel LEO should treat all citizens as hostile. I can understand that logic.

Now, let's flip the script. There have been plenty of YouTube videos of people getting beaten, tasered, shot, killed, etc... After doing absolutely nothing wrong. Should citizens then fear that will happen to them and act as if all LEO are about to beat, taser, shoot, or kill them during every traffic stop? It's the same exact logic.

Does one party have a right to life that the other doesn't?

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We see a news story every week these days of teachers sleeping with a student. Yet when it's registration time in the summer, most parents don't think "I don't know about this whole school thing...what if they try to abuse our little girl". But people do hold the actions of a small minority of police against the entire profession. Why?

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Even while disagreeing with you in this thread, I admit that's a good point.

Maybe the ultimate impact on the victims is very different, but point taken.

Violence and then police militarization took off in the 90's. You generalize them as power hungry meatheads and they generalize you as criminals.

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I hate that this has been overplayed to give the popo more respect and more credibility.

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It's probably one of those things that depends on how you look at the statistics.

People say the same thing about the military: that it's not particularly dangerous compared to some other professions. That is definitely true if you take the military as a whole. But if you were a front line infantryman from 2003 to 2012 or so, yea, it's pretty fricking dangerous.

I'd surmise that most of these shootings are happening in places where it's pretty damn dangerous to be a patrolman on a day-to-day basis. But there are a huge number of cops in the country, many (probably most) in areas that aren't particularly dangerous at all and many more back working in the office or the bureaucracy at some level.

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I had a vet once who fricked up the medicine for my pet. Guess all vets suck huh?



Last time I checked a vet can't haul you in for smoking joint and ruin your fricking life.

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Not only did you change the subject, you didn't even answer my question. The point was that you are basing an entire profession on an isolated incident. I don't think all vets suck because one that I dealt with screwed up. Yet most people, like you, criticize all LEO based on the actions of few.

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So we should treat them like shite

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Who's treating them like shite? In the example YOU gave you said these neighborhoods are cutting contact with police and not cooperating. I'd say police asking questions in a neighborhood where a crime has occurred is pretty routine, yes? So why not comply?

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you're talking like we need more cops in poor areas because there is more crime. Makes perfect sense.

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Never once said that actually. Not even close.

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You don't get it.

Imagine living in the hood, poor as frick with a dozen brothers and sisters

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Ok, I'll play along.

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You're flipping burgers three days a week for $7.25/hr all your peers are frick ups so you're trying to do the best you can. Now you got pinched for smoking a joint so BRPD tosses you in jail, but nobody you know has money to bail you out so you rot in the can until your court date but you can't pay for a lawyer so some dick wad throws the book at you because your public defender isn't worth a shite. Now you have lost your job on account of being in jail for past six week, your car got repoed, now you can't even get another job. What's even worse is you now have a criminal record. All because some guy with an 8th grade reading level and 90 days of police training has been indoctrinated to the point they feel what they did has helped the community.

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first of all, holy jump to conclusions batman. Second of all, that whole paragraph is basically irrelvant because right there at the very beginning you said that I broke the law. If I'm smoking a joint in my bedroom I'm not getting arrested. Sorry but that's not realistic. So in your hypothetical I'm likely outside in public somehwere, sorry but I've got no one to blame but myself here.

Also before you turn this into a drug issue, I think we should heavily relax drug laws. I think all weed should be recreational everywhere. But that's a different thread all together.

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I'm happy for you that you have never had to face real adversity or end up on the wrong side of the badge. I'm glad things are working out for you.

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I've been to jail before for a DUI. Guess what? I broke the law and I deserved it. I didn't blame anyone, I didn't call the cop a jerk...I faced the consequences for my own actions. Somethign most people have no concept of.

I've also been pulled over at least 10 times in the last 10 years for speeding, wiht only 1 ticket to show for it. Why? Because I diffuse the situation before they even get to my window and I speak to them with respect and courtesy. Funny how that goes a long way.

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Yet most people, like you, criticize all LEO based on the actions of few.

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Good. More people should be like me. frick the police. Whatcha think about that.

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Do you know how many policemen there are in America? I can't even begin to ballpark the number, but it's around a shitton.

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Not that many actually. Only about 750,000 with arrest power. That's federal, state, and local. Obviously not all are beat cops. Very few are actually running around on the streets.