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Posted on 2/25/15 at 8:12 am to tigeraddict
quote:
What u see on the check is not all the cost of labor. I'm my industry, our union guys make around $25/hr on their check, and we pay another $11+ in benefits. But we also have another 28% in labor burden, which is FUTA/SUTA, SS & Medicare, workers comp, liability insurance, ect.
So every dollar u see we pay another $0.28 for burden. This is commercial side, industrial side I would imagine would be higher.
Exactly, which is why there is no way in hell a union worker is any cheaper than a contractor
Posted on 2/25/15 at 8:39 am to schwag
There is no difference for Union vs non Union. ICP is a corporate policy that applies to both equally. Geismar is Shell so their ICP is based off of Shell's metrics. Convent is Motiva and NORCO is a blended rate.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:22 am to Cuz413
quote:
This Saturday-Family day for striking Oil Worker families. 12pm lunch & sign making @ union hall 2pm family day @ picket line. All members & families invited!
Just got this text from the Union. Guess they don't plan on having a deal done by the weekend.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:23 am to TigeRoots
Reply back that you can't make it because you are working that day.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:23 am to Me Bite
quote:
Fact...
False.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:36 am to TigeRoots
Can anyone link me to why they are actually striking? I heard on the news that they are upset they are having to work so much overtime. This cannot be the only reason right? Aren't these guys hourly workers? Offshore, all majors have very strict rules on the amount of time you can work. Shell for instance says no more than 16 hours straight and must have 8 hours off and then if you want to go over 21 days you need to get a variance from the OIM. I just can't imagine that they would be working everyone to death at these plants.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:42 am to Tigerstudent08
quote:
Can anyone link me to why they are actually striking?
Neither side is going to give out specifics on what has been offered or why they are striking.
Everything is pure specualtion and is supported by "someone I know that knows"
It is part of the fun of the contract, no one knows shite.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:45 am to Tigerstudent08
quote:
Shell for instance says no more than 16 hours straight and must have 8 hours off and then if you want to go over 21 days you need to get a variance from the OIM. I just can't imagine that they would be working everyone to death at these plants
This is pretty much a basic rule. It isn't that hard for a company to allow a variance. However, they only allow them when it works in their favor.
If USW NOB workers paid percentage of salary to the union, rather than base rate, this contract would likely not be held up right now.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:12 am to fightin tigers
quote:
This is pretty much a basic rule
I know. It is very hard for me to believe they are striking just for this reason. It is always about money and I'm sure this is the case this time too. Like others have said, seems like they are throwing away a lot of money right now striking for a couple weeks.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:30 am to fightin tigers
Both sides have made comments to press however it looks very bad for usw I don't need to speculate any further their history and financials say the rest. Some folk guess might defend them if they were shaking babies and killing puppies.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:37 am to fightin tigers
quote:
Everything is pure specualtion and is supported by "someone I know that knows"
Motiva CEO Dan Romasko
The document said the sticking point "is not safety, fatigue, health care or even wages, as the union claims." Instead, the memo said that USW's central issue "is their insistence that we replace routine maintenance contractors with USW-represented employees."
Romasko's memo called that "unreasonable," adding that the oil companies need to keep "flexibility in hiring" those contractors "to accommodate economic cycles and maintenance/turnaround schedules."
The memo added that Shell, as the leading company in the negotiations, has made seven different offers to union leaders, and that the USW has rejected all of them.
"We're seeing little evidence that the USW's International leaders are interested in a meaningful settlement anytime in the foreseeable future," the memo said.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:39 am to Tigerstudent08
quote:
Can anyone link me to why they are actually striking?
This is pretty much the explaination from USW:
quote:
This work stoppage isn’t about wages. It is about health and safety and health care benefits. Our members are working onerous overtime and are getting fatigued. When you’re fatigued you tend to make mistakes, and in a refinery or petrochemical plant that can be deadly and lead to catastrophic incidents that impact the community as well as the workers. We want the oil companies to hire more workers because the oil units are running with not enough people on board.
Most of us that deal in union negotiations believe that the main objective of USW is to get more people hired because that means more union membership. More membership means more dues and more money for union leaders.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 12:38 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Most of us that deal in union negotiations believe that the main objective of USW is to get more people hired because that means more union membership. More membership means more dues and more money for union leaders.
This guy gets it^^^
quote:
Our members are working onerous overtime and are getting fatigued
Most of them beg for more overtime....
And if they want more money all they have to do is put the signs down and get their arse back to work....
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:02 pm to Jollyroger
quote:
Some folk guess might defend them if they were shaking babies and killing puppies.
on the other hand people are defending big oil companies that are raping them weekly at the pumps.
Neither USW or Oil companies are defendable, but most people are brainwashed in to defending companies with the battle cry of American rights.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:08 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Most of us that deal in union negotiations believe that the main objective of USW is to get more people hired because that means more union membership. More membership means more dues and more money for union leaders.
I agree with this. It goes further than dues, but it is true. The process to remove unions through attrition started decades ago. The union is now finally waking up to this and trying to reverse the course. No way it happens easily though.
Workers have become more about self preservation today and won't put up a fight, even if it spells their doom in 20 years.
This post was edited on 2/25/15 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:13 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
Workers have become more about self preservation today and won't put up a fight, even if it spells their doom in 20 years.
Are you simply stating people are more interested in paying their bills, therefore they are more willing to work vs. fighting with the union and their goals?
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:14 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
We want the oil companies to hire more workers because the oil units are running with not enough people on board.
Something tells me the unions will only be satisfied if they hire more union employees. If I am the plant owner I would announce I will hire 5% more employees this week but none will be Union employees and see what their response will be.
quote:
on the other hand people are defending big oil companies that are raping them weekly at the pumps
Ummm what? Can you explain how Shell/Exxon/Chevron are "raping people at the pump"? Are they just being nice now that people aren't being "raped"?
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:19 pm to LateArrivalforLSU
quote:
Are you simply stating people are more interested in paying their bills, therefore they are more willing to work vs. fighting with the union and their goals?
I am saying that Shell first offered 6/4/4 and a $4,500 signing bonus out the box. Take this to vote on and it will pass with union members. Granted, most wouldn't read about how they lost their insurance coverage, seniority, some retirement and the contract is only good with the current owners.
Luckily, they don't bring this shite to a vote. Most idiots can be bought for very cheap.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 1:21 pm to fightin tigers
We're not on strike for anyone's rights right now are we. Don't really think we're being raped at the pumps either. You just keep drinking that cool aid and go hold your sign. USW ain't nothin but a big corp themselves looking to make a bottom line.
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