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re: Gen. Douglas MacArthur "dug out dug"
Posted on 6/15/15 at 7:58 pm to RickyDonSkaggs
Posted on 6/15/15 at 7:58 pm to RickyDonSkaggs
If you do not know that MacArthur was ordered to leave the Philippines by President Roosevelt, then you do not have sufficient knowledge to be taken seriously in your criticisms of MacArthur. Calling MacArthur a coward is just plain ridiculous in light of the courage he demonstrated on the battlefields of WWI.
MacArthur was the commander of the Southwest Pacific Theater in WWII. His command consisted of U.S. Army, Australian and New Zealand ground forces. The Marines were almost exclusively part of the Nimitz's Pacific Ocean Area Theater command. The Marines' principle campaigns were in the South Pacific and Central Pacific Theaters that were subordinate to Nimitz. For which island did MacArthur needlessly sacrifice Marines?
MacArthur was the commander of the Southwest Pacific Theater in WWII. His command consisted of U.S. Army, Australian and New Zealand ground forces. The Marines were almost exclusively part of the Nimitz's Pacific Ocean Area Theater command. The Marines' principle campaigns were in the South Pacific and Central Pacific Theaters that were subordinate to Nimitz. For which island did MacArthur needlessly sacrifice Marines?
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Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:31 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
But he had style
That's not MacArthur. That's Gregory Peck.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:55 pm to LSUinMA
The Phillipinnes you commy bitch
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:08 am to RickyDonSkaggs
quote:
The Phillipinnes you commy bitch
You might want to check your history books. MacArthur didn't sacrifice any Marines in retaking the Philippines for one main reason. There were no Marines used in retaking the Philippines. The troops used on the ground to retake the Philippines were all US Army from the 6th & 8th Armies.
LINK
As for the defense of the Philippines in 1941-42, there was one under strength regiment (actually about battalion strength) of Marines present. That's compared to an entire regular army division (made up of mostly Filipinos except for one infantry regiment), a handful of regular army coastal artillery batteries and two army national guard light tank battalions. He also and 10 divisions of the Filipino army which for the most part were barely armed and woefully equipped.
LINK
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:14 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Buddy of mine's grandfather LINK served under him in Korea and apparently thought he was pretty much the worst human being alive.
My dad served under him during WW2 and pretty much said the same thing. BTW, my uncle served in the 3rd Army under Patton and wasn't to thrilled with him, either.
ETA: MacArthur was ordered by President Roosevelt to leave the Philippines for Australia; he did not want to go and abandon his troops.
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 10:15 am
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:21 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Admiral Hausley did more to win the war.
Admiral Halsey "took the bait" and chased after a non-existent Jap task force leaving only a small contingent of destroyers and jeep carriers to defend the Philippines. Thank God Taffy 3 put up a good fight, or the landings in the Philippines could have been a disaster.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:26 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
ETA: MacArthur was ordered by President Roosevelt to leave the Philippines for Australia; he did not want to go and abandon his troops
You're exactly right. And not only did he plan on staying with his troops until the end, he also planned on having his wife and 4 year old son do the same. He was urged by everyone, including Gen Marshall to get out or at least get his family out but he refused. The only thing that finally compelled him to relent was when FDR himself gave him a direct order to leave the Philippines, go to Australia, and take command of the US forces assembling there..
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:28 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
Admiral Halsey "took the bait" and chased after a non-existent Jap task force leaving only a small contingent of destroyers and jeep carriers to defend the Philippines. Thank God Taffy 3 put up a good fight, or the landings in the Philippines could have been a disaster.
True. but like i said earlier in this thread. If you look at any great commander you'll find where he has made mistakes. The example you cite just happens to be Bull Halsey's biggest one.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:32 am to TrueTiger
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:36 am to Darth_Vader
I just had to post this about Santo Tomas:
My father was one of those American soldiers. He'll be 95 in 3 days.
quote:
During World War II, the Japanese forces converted the Sampaloc campus into an internment camp for enemy aliens, mostly Americans, living in the Philippines. The original Intramuros campus was destroyed in 1944 by an arson created by the Japanese Kempeitai. More than 4,000 foreigners survived under difficult conditions in the internment camp for 37 months from January 1942 until February 1945 when the camp was liberated by American soldiers.[12]
My father was one of those American soldiers. He'll be 95 in 3 days.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:39 am to Darth_Vader
My great uncle marched in the Bataan death march and live through it. Never talked about the war.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:45 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
So while it's fair to criticize MacArthur in many regards, wasting the lives of his men is not one of them. Of the two main allied leaders in the Pacific, Nimitz arguably wasted far more lives than MacArthur
What a great time to rejoin the fight! Now Darth, you know that the OT won't let facts get in the way.
How are things going?
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:02 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The troops used on the ground to retake the Philippines were all US Army from the 6th & 8th Armies.
Because of the incredible PR arm of the USMC - everyone thinks that every amphibious invasion is all or mostly marines. Try to educate the average American and explain that a single U.S. Army amphibious invasion (Normandy) is about the size of all the USMC invasions in history, combined (possibly excepting Okinawa) and you draw blank stares. Even in the Pacific, there were usually Army units involved in a supporting or reinforcing role (or, in MacArthur's area, as you suggest the sole or main force).
Roosevelt, King and Marshall had to draw a line in the Pacific to keep Nimitz and Mac happy - there was barely room in all of the Pacific for both of those egos (and no room left for Patton's after VE day -
). Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:04 am to Spaceman Spiff
Hey, Spiff. Welcome back! 
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:06 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because of the incredible PR arm of the USMC - everyone thinks that every amphibious invasion is all or mostly marines. Try to educate the average American and explain that a single U.S. Army amphibious invasion (Normandy) is about the size of all the USMC invasions in history, combined (possibly excepting Okinawa) and you draw blank stares. Even in the Pacific, there were usually Army units involved in a supporting or reinforcing role (or, in MacArthur's area, as you suggest the sole or main force).
Very true. As for Okinawa, I believe it was an even larger amphibious invasion than Normandy. But even there it was more of an Army than a Marine operation. There were 4 army divisions deployed compared to 3 Marine divisions.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:18 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But even there it was more of an Army than a Marine operation. There were 4 army divisions deployed compared to 3 Marine divisions.
Yeah - I don't know the exact order of battle, but that sounds right - and it was all hands on deck for the USMC - that was every marine in the Pacific that was available to put on a landing craft.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:20 am to LSUinMA
quote:
He was a great thundering paradox of a man, noble and ignoble, inspiring and outrageous, arrogant and shy, the best of men and the worst of men, the most protean, most ridiculous, and most sublime. No more baffling, exasperating soldier ever wore a uniform. Flam- boyant, imperious, and apocalyptic, he carried the plumage of a flamingo, could not acknowledge errors, and tried to cover up his mistakes with sly, childish tricks. Yet he was also endowed with great personal charm, a will of iron, and a soaring intellect. Unquestionably he was the most gifted man- at- arms this nation has produced.
The opening of Manchester's biography of MacArthur.
This post sums up MacArthur better than this entire thread. Although I would argue that Grant, Washington, Eisenhower, and Patton are better "men-at-arms" Unfortunately the OT likely has no idea how to read a paragraph like that with any comprehension
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:22 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Admiral Halsey "took the bait" and chased after a non-existent Jap task force leaving only a small contingent of destroyers and jeep carriers to defend the Philippines. Thank God Taffy 3 put up a good fight, or the landings in the Philippines could have been a disaster.
True. but like i said earlier in this thread. If you look at any great commander you'll find where he has made mistakes. The example you cite just happens to be Bull Halsey's biggest one.
Spruance > Fletcher > Halsey
:Come at me Bro:
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 11:25 am
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:23 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I don't know the exact order of battle, but that sounds right
Yeah - Darth - you were spot on - XXIV Corps (U.S. Army) was the 7th, 27th, 77th and 96th divisions, while the III Amphibious Corps (USMC) was the 1st, 2nd and 6th Marine Divisions.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:29 am to LR2RedStick
quote:
I would argue that Grant, Washington, Eisenhower, and Patton are better "men-at-arms"
Let's not confuse the generals (who are important, no question) and the real men doing the real fighting.
Audie Murphy is probably the greatest "man-at-arms" we've ever produced - because he so routinely demonstrated courage under fire, I believe his awards are actually understated (despite being the most decorated U.S. soldier of WWII) - he should have received 2 CMH, 1 DSC and 1 SS, as opposed to 1 CMH, 1 DSC and 2 SS - but when we're making that distinction, it's hard to argue against his courage and capability under fire.
Anyone can be brave (and get killed quickly) - anyone can develop some proficiency at arms - very few develop both to the level of success achieved by Murphy, be so effective on the battlefield and live to tell the tale.
Just my $0.02.
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