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re: At full strength who was more powerful in ww2 Germany or US?

Posted on 11/2/21 at 6:06 am to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89597 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 6:06 am to
quote:

Similar figures for the British male fighting population between the early 20’s and mid 40’s.




This is highly improbable. The Brits suffered less than 400k KIA out of a population of 50 million. Their Great War losses (20K in one day) were comparable on pro rata basis to Russia, but not WWII.
This post was edited on 11/2/21 at 11:13 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89597 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 6:16 am to
quote:

The japs were masters of jungle fighting and it was as brutal as any, however, there weren’t long drawn out campaigns.


The Japanese were outstanding in the jungle, but they had fought a prolonged war with the Chinese. The just hadn't had to deal with the production disadvantage they had against the U.S. And they were a small nation (for Asia). At a certain point, it wasn't even the production deficit. They could no longer sustain the losses they suffered at the hands of the United States, particularly naval aviation. During a 2-day period in June 1944, we shot down over 600 Japanese aircraft, effectively ending any effective air power the Japanese had for the remainder of the war in the Pacific. It wasn't just the aircraft losses. The loss of so many trained pilots was unrecoverable during the timeframe of the war.
Posted by Man4others
Member since Aug 2017
2062 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 6:48 am to
The US could’ve defeated Germany at full strength and then taken on Russia at full strength and still won
Posted by Animal
Member since Dec 2017
4222 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 6:49 am to
Unpopular opinion - with zero disrespect to the vets of that war.

Our economy (manufacturing capability) won WWII.

Now think about what would happen today sans nukes.
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1454 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:37 am to
quote:

US could have sent soldiers all day every day even crossing an ocean.



If the Germans succeeded at the Battle of the Bulge, we likely didn’t even have enough reserves available to send to make keeping Antwerp worth it. Particularly considering the Soviets would have had complete control of Germany in no time.
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1454 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:38 am to
quote:

Our economy (manufacturing capability) won WWII.



Exactly correct.
Posted by carhartt
Member since Feb 2013
7722 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:41 am to
The military from a country slightly bigger than the size of New Mexico had no real shot at defeating the US military at its full strength.
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1454 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:46 am to
quote:

The US could’ve defeated Germany at full strength and then taken on Russia at full strength and still won



At full strength, Germany had more than 300 divisions.

We had less than 100.

It’s a totally different story if they’re fighting over here, of course.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423304 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:49 am to
quote:

1941 Germany would walk through us like they did France.

Germany couldn't even conquer the UK in 41
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17531 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 7:52 am to
quote:

The Japanese were outstanding in the jungle, but they had fought a prolonged war with the Chinese. The just hadn't had to deal with the production disadvantage they had against the U.S. And they were a small nation (for Asia). At a certain point, it wasn't even the production deficit. They could no longer sustain the losses they suffered at the hands of the United States, particularly naval aviation. During a 2-day period in June 1944, we shot down over 600 Japanese aircraft, effectively ending any effective air power the Japanese had for the remainder of the war in the Pacific. It wasn't just the aircraft losses. The loss of so many trained pilots was unrecoverable during the timeframe of the war.


Bingo. Most of the war dealt around naval actions. The losses at Midway, etc., put the Japs in a position that was unrecoverable. Island hopping was a brilliant strategy - why fight when starve them to death?
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1454 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 8:06 am to
quote:

Germany couldn't even conquer the UK in 41


Man, I thought we were talking about the land war. We would’ve smoked everybody at sea.

But it’s foolish to think we stood a chance against the German armed forces on land.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17531 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 8:16 am to
quote:

Germany couldn't even conquer the UK in 41


Their one mistake: switching from bombing RAF/military targets to cities. They had the RAF on the ropes and almost done for. Had that happened, England would have fallen.
Posted by Mstate
Birmingham
Member since Nov 2009
9700 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 9:20 am to
quote:

Their one mistake: switching from bombing RAF/military targets to cities. They had the RAF on the ropes and almost done for. Had that happened, England would have fallen.


That was one of Gorings many mistakes but from what I’ve read they still didn’t have the capacity to launch operation sea lion (the invasion of Britain). Not enough surface ships to defend the convoy and I don’t think they had the necessary transport or assault boats.

Now, with British fighter cover eliminated I guess they could have just fire bombed London all day and night but not sure they could have launched a full fledged invasion
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17531 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 10:23 am to
quote:

That was one of Gorings many mistakes but from what I’ve read they still didn’t have the capacity to launch operation sea lion (the invasion of Britain). Not enough surface ships to defend the convoy and I don’t think they had the necessary transport or assault boats.

Now, with British fighter cover eliminated I guess they could have just fire bombed London all day and night but not sure they could have launched a full fledged invasion


Exactly. The only thing after control of the air would have been the sea. At that time, Uboats ruled the seas as we weren't in it at the time.

I do believe they more than had the capability to do an invasion had they not made that critical mistake of switching targets. In all honesty, they may not have had to invade. They could have ringed the island and kept supplies out.
Posted by Old Money
Member since Sep 2012
36472 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 11:14 am to
quote:

Germany couldn't even conquer the UK in 41


That is a completely different, un-comparable situation.

Our Army size was about 300k in 1940, and these were not highly trained guys. Germanys was 2.5m.

If we are invaded, it is over. If we are given time to mobilize like we were, we are unstoppable.
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1454 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 11:52 am to
quote:

That is a completely different, un-comparable situation.


Right, it’s not even a good straw man.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
7909 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 12:02 pm to
America never reached its' full strength in WW2. It didn't have to.
Posted by Mahootney
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
11875 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

If we are invaded, it is over. If we are given time to mobilize like we were, we are unstoppable.

Japan looked at the full invasion by surprise option.

Here's a quote from the man himself.
Japanese Admiral Yamamoto is claimed by some to have said, "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17148 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Germany was never for a moment capable of invading, conquering, and successfully pacifying Britain.


Had Germany adopted a policy of containment of UK power they could have waited until their nuclear program was succesful. It would have been game set match for the Brits.

Hitler's fixation on Russia is what destroyed his dreams. He had the manpower to win in Western Europe. He should have hit Africa to secure oil and waited patiently until 1947. Germany had a HUGE technological advantage that grew wider every year.
Posted by alphaandomega
Tuscaloosa
Member since Aug 2012
13623 posts
Posted on 11/2/21 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

Two words: Manhattan Project


game, set, match



I would say that just the amount of material we were producing at the end of the war would have overwhelmed anyone.

For the sake of conversation, lets look at combat aircraft.

In 1941 the US produced 18,466 aircraft.
In 1944 the US produced 96,270 aircraft.

There is zero chance that the Germans could have ever reached that rate. Thats an astounding 260+ airframes EVERY DAY.
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