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re: What "realistic" draft pick would cause the biggest meltdown?
Posted on 4/26/14 at 5:48 pm to Hoodoo Man
Posted on 4/26/14 at 5:48 pm to Hoodoo Man
Nah I'm just messing around. 
0
Posted on 4/26/14 at 5:54 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Most of the time teams rush 4 or 5 guys leaving 6 or 7 in coverage. So technically speaking they could double both at the same time and have 1 on 1 with the other 3 or leave 1 guy uncovered.
A defense double teaming two receivers would be so fundamentally flawed it would be effortless to exploit.
And no, no defense felt the need to double-team Sproles or Stills.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:04 pm to Fun Bunch
OBJ....
Don't think so? Watch me burn this place and my posting privileges down if we take him. Will make Brett 's KV melt look like Mr Rodgers reading the giving tree.
Don't think so? Watch me burn this place and my posting privileges down if we take him. Will make Brett 's KV melt look like Mr Rodgers reading the giving tree.
This post was edited on 4/26/14 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:05 pm to FootballNostradamus
Lets think about it for a second.
Offense has 5 eligible WRs. Lets say the O is in shotgun with 4 WRs, and a RB on the field.
The D is in a nickel formation. 5 DBs, 2 LBs, 4 DL. And for the sake of things lets just say they only rush the 4 DL.
WRs are being double teamed, which would be 4 DBs. Leaving 1 DB and 2 LBs to cover 2 WRs and a RB. The other DB would take WR3. Leaving 1 LB on the RB, and other LB against a WR. No team would have a LB on a true WR.
And only 4 DL, so dont think they would be getting a lot of pressure on the QB. Allowing him to sit back and pick his match up.
Numbers wise, sure it could work. Matchup wise, it wouldnt.
Offense has 5 eligible WRs. Lets say the O is in shotgun with 4 WRs, and a RB on the field.
The D is in a nickel formation. 5 DBs, 2 LBs, 4 DL. And for the sake of things lets just say they only rush the 4 DL.
WRs are being double teamed, which would be 4 DBs. Leaving 1 DB and 2 LBs to cover 2 WRs and a RB. The other DB would take WR3. Leaving 1 LB on the RB, and other LB against a WR. No team would have a LB on a true WR.
And only 4 DL, so dont think they would be getting a lot of pressure on the QB. Allowing him to sit back and pick his match up.
Numbers wise, sure it could work. Matchup wise, it wouldnt.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:22 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:It happens all the time, but I never said every snap of every game.
A defense double teaming two receivers would be so fundamentally flawed it would be effortless to exploit.
And yes you can exploit it if you have the talent and/or a match up advantage and know it's coming/read it quickly after the snap. But defenses aren't going to use it every play.
quote:Now you're just talking out of your arse.
And no, no defense felt the need to double-team Sproles or Stills.
Teams put a safety over the top of Stills(and even Meachem) quite often.
And with Sproles he got the inside out bracket coverage quite a bit with 2 LBs or a LB and nickel corner.
And this is usually with zone coverage or a combo coverage. I NEVER said anyone literally put 2 man defenders on our guys. That's not really how most coverages work(but it does happen from time to time).
For instance with Stills if he's running a go route the safety is ready to jump it with the man corner playing under technique for the short to intermediate routes. If the safety reads a shorter route he drops off of Stills and picks up another guy.
With Sproles they usually sat the defenders in under zones ready to pick him up whatever way he went.
And then there is bracket coverage where one guy shades inside and the other out, but the same principles apply in that whatever way he goes dictates who picks him up.
I guess in short you call it rolling the coverage, and yes teams used it on Graham, Stills, and Sproles quite often.
This post was edited on 4/26/14 at 6:23 pm
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:31 pm to KG5989
quote:Usually when teams roll out 4 wide the defense comes out with 4 corners or 3 corners and a safety that can cover the slot.
Lets think about it for a second.
Offense has 5 eligible WRs. Lets say the O is in shotgun with 4 WRs, and a RB on the field.
The D is in a nickel formation. 5 DBs, 2 LBs, 4 DL. And for the sake of things lets just say they only rush the 4 DL.
WRs are being double teamed, which would be 4 DBs. Leaving 1 DB and 2 LBs to cover 2 WRs and a RB. The other DB would take WR3. Leaving 1 LB on the RB, and other LB against a WR. No team would have a LB on a true WR.
And only 4 DL, so dont think they would be getting a lot of pressure on the QB. Allowing him to sit back and pick his match up.
Numbers wise, sure it could work. Matchup wise, it wouldnt.
So let's change your example to something more realistic. Offense comes out in 4 wide with a HB and the defense comes out in dime with 4 down linemen and rushes 4.
Now if the HB goes out on a route then the LB follows. Whether this is a mismatch depends on the players.
If the HB stays put the LB could fall back into a middle zone to help coverage, double one of the slot receivers/receiver running an in route, or blitz to help with pressure.
The 4 CBs could be in man(and for simplicity's sake let's say they are).
That leaves your 2 safeties with plenty of options. The can play 2 deep, single high and double the most dangerous receiver, single high with under zone, the can both double the outside receivers, or the corners could play off and both can play under zones.
And that's the point of all this. You aren't going to literally double man cover the whole game, especially not 2 guys. But you CAN do it at times during the game, whether man, zone, or combo.
You guys are being too literal with the term double with man coverage.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:41 pm to Fun Bunch
If its a "realistic" pick I don't think a meltdown occurs.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 6:45 pm to bonethug0108
Honestly, the formation doesnt really matter. Offense will have 5 eligible receivers anyways. It could be just 3 WRs, a TE, and a RB.
Or if you are like the Chargers, where you have 2 good pass catching TEs and a good receiving back you could go 2 WRs, 2 TEs, and Woodhead.
Its still 5 eligible receivers for the O. And double teaming 2 guys takes away 4 defenders. There are mismatches to be had.
And Im not being too literal about this. This whole double / bracket coverage thing spawned because someone said OBJ and Jarvis were doubled and bracketed a lot at LSU, which they werent. And then that person went on to basically say the reason Jarvis was so successful this season was because teams double teamed OBJ. Which isnt true either.
Or if you are like the Chargers, where you have 2 good pass catching TEs and a good receiving back you could go 2 WRs, 2 TEs, and Woodhead.
Its still 5 eligible receivers for the O. And double teaming 2 guys takes away 4 defenders. There are mismatches to be had.
And Im not being too literal about this. This whole double / bracket coverage thing spawned because someone said OBJ and Jarvis were doubled and bracketed a lot at LSU, which they werent. And then that person went on to basically say the reason Jarvis was so successful this season was because teams double teamed OBJ. Which isnt true either. This post was edited on 4/26/14 at 7:07 pm
Posted on 4/26/14 at 8:26 pm to KG5989
quote:Yeah I'm not arguing that either way.
This whole double / bracket coverage thing spawned because someone said OBJ and Jarvis were doubled and bracketed a lot at LSU, which they werent. And then that person went on to basically say the reason Jarvis was so successful this season was because teams double teamed OBJ. Which isnt true either.
I was just pointing out that yes, at times teams do double up on two players at once, or even keep a "spy" on a guy to "double" him the whole game if he is that good(basically what a lot of teams do to Jimmy).
And of course there will be mismatches and ways to exploit the coverages. Teams can do that with any coverage.
But if you're smart about who you're doubling on and when it's a great strategy.
Take Detroit before Reggie for instance. Teams could literally double and sometimes triple CJ on almost every play because none of the other guys they had were consistently winning one on ones.
Now with Reggie teams have to choose who to double and how often. Sometimes both still get double coverage on the same play depending on what team is playing them and who matches up on them, but CJ isn't double as often as he was before.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 10:25 pm to Fun Bunch
Cyrus Kouandjio
Posted on 4/26/14 at 10:40 pm to KG5989
Where in my post did I mention them double teaming both we at the same time
Posted on 4/26/14 at 10:41 pm to poncho villa
You arent the poster I was talking about man.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 11:44 pm to KG5989
Where in any of my post did I ever mentioned doubling both receivers at the same time?
Posted on 4/26/14 at 11:50 pm to BigBrod81
What are you talking about? Where did I ever say that you said that? Nowhere...
Posted on 4/26/14 at 11:53 pm to KG5989
Ok. Carry on then.
Posted on 4/26/14 at 11:54 pm to BigBrod81
Posted on 4/27/14 at 12:06 am to KG5989
Where in any post did I say anything important?
Posted on 4/27/14 at 12:07 am to KG5989
Posted on 4/27/14 at 12:10 am to bonethug0108
Posted on 4/27/14 at 12:22 am to KG5989
shite I fricking love Anchor Man(and Anchor Man 2). Steve was great. 
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