re: Free Agent Shopping

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I don't dig paying kickers and punters 3 to 4 million per year. frick that. Give me Talib mother fricker. You saying we can't afford talib but want to pay top kicker dollar. frick that.

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I have to agree with Chad here. While kickers are important, almost every single one can be very streaky year to year, game to game.

I did hate the kicker carousel we went through before settling on Hartley, but looking at his contract it was a bad one(to pay any kicker that much).

I'd much rather spend $3-4 mil a year on a player that's going to play a majority of the snaps(or at least around half) that will make a much bigger impact than a kicker that may kick about 25 times in 16 games.

If you average out the cost effectiveness of an average player and an average kicker I'm sure you'd find a player will help you score/keep your opponent from scoring more points than a kicker will get you in the course of a season. Kicker is just more obvious to see because the result is instant.

you pay a kicker a heafty sum only if he is a legit superstar. i don't see Folk as that, nor do I pretend to know what it will cost to get him. I don't believe it will be anywhere near 3-4 mill.

I still prefer the rookie route. didn't we just sign a dude to a futures contract?

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you pay a kicker a heafty sum only if he is a legit superstar. i don't see Folk as that, nor do I pretend to know what it will cost to get him. I don't believe it will be anywhere near 3-4 mill. I still prefer the rookie route. didn't we just sign a dude to a futures contract?

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Problem with that though is a kicker can be a superstar for 1, 2, 3 years in a row and then go below 80% the next year.

I don't ever see paying a kicker more than $2 mil a year being worth it given how important cap space is and how much of an impact you can get from a player at almost any other position for that price.

I do like the rookie route because of the price tag, but if you can get 5-10 year vet with an 85% avg. for about $2 mil it would be worth it.

Folk has been playing on one year deals in NY. Last year was only $715K

Give him $1mil for 3yrs

4 years kicking in MetLife...

0-19yds 1/1
20-29 30/33
30-39 36/41
40-49 25/34
50+ 11/18

Career 269/269 XP

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89% between 20-40???? No thank you. This MUST be at least 95% to even be considered for signing.

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Is this serious? If so you need to go check out pretty much every kickers avgs. at different distances. 90% is actually very good.

But Hartley's problem was that he was below avg. from about 20-40, but he was far above avg. from 40-50. That's why he stayed so long. He was really money from about 35-45 in particular(until this year where he missed 4 of his 6 career misses from 40-50).

You're basically taking 1 missed kick a year from each of those distances which is above avg. for Folk.

Edit:
@blues, sure if we are getting him for vet minimum-$1.5 mil I'd think he was worth a look.

Edit2:
This is the career averages of all NFL kickers:

LINK

Only 3 guys average over 87% for their career and they are very young with plenty of time for that number to come back to earth.

Vanderjagt is the most accurate retired kicker at about 86.5%. That's only over about 8.5 full seasons' worth of kicking that so not even a good 10 +year career.

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89% between 20-40???? No thank you. This MUST be at least 95% to even be considered for signing.




Is this serious? If so you need to go check out pretty much every kickers avgs. at different distances. 90% is actually very good

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Nice try, but wrong. Here are some stats to chew on:

Gostkowski- 38/41 93% bwtn 20-40yds 21/21 100%
Tucker- 38/41 93% btwn 20-40yds 22/23 96%
Vintri- 35/40 88% btwn 20-40 16/17 94%
Carpenter- 33/36 92% btwn 20-40 19/19 100%
Haushka- 33/35 94% btwn 20-40 20/21 95%
Crosby- 33/37 89% btwn 20-40 21/21 100%

I'm tired of typing, but you see the point. The only one in the top 8 to have less than 95% from this range was Novak in SD, and he has been known to struggle in the past. So no, 90% from this range is not acceptable much less "very good." 90% overall is the cutoff point for very good, and this is due to misses from beyond 40 and especially 50.

check it out for yourself, and you will see most of these kickers meet the 95% threshold for 20-40 yd range.


In fairness to Folk, he was a 92% kicker this year and 95% from this range. He was very good; however, his past troubles make him a concern.

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Only 3 guys average over 87% for their career and they are very young with plenty of time for that number to come back to earth.

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I believe the problem we have here is you misinterpreting my statement of between "20-40yds" regarding the 95% mark. You are referencing total percentage, which is skewed negatively due to 40+ fgs. I don't disagree with you in regards to total percentage, but the distinction I pointed out with Folk is that he is 89% between 20-40yds. That is a major problem, and one that we just got rid of and should not replace with again.

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Woodyard, ILB DEN

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I like this

1. Alterraun Verner
2. Julian Edelman
3. Alex Mack
4. Brandon Spikes
5. Walter Thurmond

I'm good.

Great job taking some of the best short range kickers and ignoring all the rest. What about the middle of the pack kickers? And if you look at the numbers you can see 1 or 2 misses(which is about what Folk has per year) can take you from 100% to 85%. Gould had one missed kick between 30-40 and has 86%.

This is why you look at career numbers and not one season. Like I said, kickers are streaky.

Gostkowski 144/157 91.7% career 20-40

Tucker only has 2 years in thus it's hard to get a career avg., but it's 38/39 97.4% between 20-40

Vinatieri 292/325 89.8% career 20-40

Carpenter 88/91 96.7% career 20-40

Hauschka 61/66 92.4% career 20-40

Crosby 116/127 91.3% career 20-40

A correlation between amount of kicks to % is pretty clear even with that small sample. Carpenter is the outlier.

Now the guys you conveniently left off in the top 8.

Folk 18/19 94.7% this year. Oh wow that would meet your this year only bias! 102/115 88.7% career 20-40. ONLY 1% BELOW VINATIERI!

Novak 22/25 88% this year. Gee look, that makes 4 of the top 8 kickers under that magic 95%! And that's just talking about the top kickers this year! 60/70 85.7% career 20-40 for those that are curious. Hmm, a top 8 kicker THIS YEAR that is worse than Folk on his career. You don't say.

No offense but don't try to come in here and big time me with skewed numbers. Get some real facts and get your head out of your arse.

89% career 20-40 is above the NFL average for a career. If you want to over pay a top guy that will only have his % go down with 1 or 2 misses a year as his career goes on that's fine.

I'd much rather take that 1 or 2 misses on someone worth $1-2 mil than $3-4 mil because odds are everyone will eventually miss. But now we have $2 mil to spend on someone other than an idiot kicker.