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re: Possible Upside to Struggles?
Posted on 2/27/17 at 6:44 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 2/27/17 at 6:44 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Something like a S&T of Holiday for Bazemore and Hardaway S&T. You still need a PG though, and there aren't many worthwhile targets for an uneven trade.
Do they need a "PG?"
Yes, they need guys who can handle/pass the ball and have some off the bounce juice. I'm not convinced they need what we normally think of as a "PG"
I would be looking for something like an old Triangle PG or a Beverly type w/ Boogie + Brow
1
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:19 am to Crewz
Is there no chance that the Pels can go after Lowry?
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:39 am to lsuhunt555
I think somehow we try to go after Wall if the Callipari rumors fire up into reality.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:58 am to TigerinATL
quote:
You can't do that though. That's why signing Jrue has always been a likelihood because his cap hold is just $16.9 million. You aren't getting comparable talent for just that
This is the Asik situation all over again. I like Jrue, and I won't be that upset if we resign him to something reasonable, but i'm very open to looking elsewhere.
I understand that whatever moves we are going to make will be done this offseason, and after this offseason, our roster will be set for the foreseeable future for the most part.
Would you rather resign Jrue to a 4/100 contract, or get another PG for something around his cap hit? What is Jeff Teague going to get, probably something close to what Jrue will i'd expect? But what if you could sign him to 4/70? I personally would rather Teague than Jrue straight up.
What if instead of getting Jrue, you sign Patty Mills and Shabazz with Jrue's cap hit, two guys shooting over 40% from 3, both younger than Jrue? I would expect they both can be had for a combined $17M.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 8:29 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
This is the Asik situation all over again.
Yes and no. Yes they've painted themselves into a corner. No I don't think Holiday is going to fall off a cliff nor do I think they'd benefit from signing him to just a 1 or 2 year deal like I wanted with Asik.
quote:
What if instead of getting Jrue, you sign Patty Mills and Shabazz with Jrue's cap hit
Thinking about this and the S&T I came up with it comes back to you usually don't win a trade in the NBA when you trade quarters for dimes and nickels. Holiday was in pretty decent demand as a trade piece the last few years even with teams knowing he was going to get a pay day. I'm not sure I want him at $30 million, he gets into untradeable territory then, but if you can keep it to say $23 and under I'd resign him. He's not going to stay this bad, and if his contract is in that 20% of the cap or less range where he was at with this deal under the old cap, he'll hopefully be just as tradeable.
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 8:37 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 8:36 am to corndeaux
quote:
Do they need a "PG?"
They need someone that can run a P&R without dribbling the ball off of their feet like they were Hornican Eric Gordon. They had some good analysis on the latest In the NO, saying part of Holiday's problems are 1) less space to work with swapping a corner boy for Cousins. 2) With no other guard threat, Holiday is getting a lot more help defenders coming at him. It makes sense, Buddy and Galloway both shot well enough to draw defenders and they've been replaced by a DLeaguer and Frazier.
I'm really not sure what I want to see next to Holiday. A SG that can create some like Fournier, or a PG that can shift Holiday to SG like Mills.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:00 am to TigerinATL
I dont' think he will fall off a cliff like Asik either, and no a 1 or 2 year deal would be ideal like with Asik.
It's just the fact that I've seen enough from him to know that I don't want him on this team as our lead guard.
If there's a way to get Batum/Fournier/Middleton, with Jrue, i'd be ok with that.
If we are going to resign Jrue and get role players to fill out the roster, i'm not ok with that.
I know most won't agree, but I think Rondo or Rubio would be a good PG to have with AD and DC, if they are going to play the PnR game. Even Tyreke would be a better fit than Jrue for this.
If they want to play a slower half court offense more similar to the triangle, then Jrue would be a good PG to have, if you can see him playing the Derrick Fisher role, but you can't pay him like he's Kobe to be Fisher.
I've watched enough of Jrue play the PnR game and too often he's just not effective with it. He has games where he plays great, but too often he has games where you barely know he's out there.
It's just the fact that I've seen enough from him to know that I don't want him on this team as our lead guard.
If there's a way to get Batum/Fournier/Middleton, with Jrue, i'd be ok with that.
If we are going to resign Jrue and get role players to fill out the roster, i'm not ok with that.
I know most won't agree, but I think Rondo or Rubio would be a good PG to have with AD and DC, if they are going to play the PnR game. Even Tyreke would be a better fit than Jrue for this.
If they want to play a slower half court offense more similar to the triangle, then Jrue would be a good PG to have, if you can see him playing the Derrick Fisher role, but you can't pay him like he's Kobe to be Fisher.
I've watched enough of Jrue play the PnR game and too often he's just not effective with it. He has games where he plays great, but too often he has games where you barely know he's out there.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:04 am to TigerinATL
I like those two, or a guy like Nic Batum, who can allow Jrue to play PG on defense while playing more off ball on offense.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:10 am to Crewz
I kind of want to already but if we go 0-2 next two games, the pels have to start getting very aggressive in their tanking. A top 3 pick would be outstanding for this franchise.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:15 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I think Rondo or Rubio would be a good PG to have with AD and DC,
I'm ok going away from Holiday if they replace him with something decent this year. Hope is not a Plan and we can't afford to have going away from Holiday be a repeat of moving on from Robin Lopez.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:19 am to Chad504boy
They won't tank unless BOTH AD and Boogie get hurt and are out for the year. So talking about it, hoping for it, etc are pointless
They are using this season as an extended practice to see what works so they can build the roster around that in the offseason. They aren't worrying about a minute chance to get a pick.
Smart people worry about what they can control, and pay no attention to what they can't
They are using this season as an extended practice to see what works so they can build the roster around that in the offseason. They aren't worrying about a minute chance to get a pick.
Smart people worry about what they can control, and pay no attention to what they can't
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:22 am to Crewz
quote:
Smart people worry about what they can control, and pay no attention to what they can't
seems like they can control losing, don't have a shot at controlling winning. and they are the supposed smart ones... HA.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:24 am to Chad504boy
They can't control losing. You want to be the guy to go tell a healthy AD and Boogie to sit out games down the stretch? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You think of this as if it were a video game. These are real people.
It aint happening. Stop talking about it.
It aint happening. Stop talking about it.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:26 am to Crewz
quote:
They can't control losing. You want to be the guy to go tell a healthy AD and Boogie to sit out games down the stretch? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You think of this as if it were a video game. These are real people.
It aint happening. Stop talking about it.
they can keep ad and boogie out there, but give them no help. no different than what we've been doing.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:28 am to Crewz
quote:
I like those two, or a guy like Nic Batum
Do you really think Charlotte would give up on Batum? I went and looked at his stats and they're pretty much the same as when they signed him to his current deal. Surely he's not what's wrong with the Hornets. Although I guess it could be like Utah with Hayward, if he's your #1 player how far can you really go?
Batum is at the top of the list of targets for me, I just can't believe the Pels would have a shot at him.
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 10:42 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:29 am to Chad504boy
That's not tanking. That's trying to win, but losing.
So what you want to say is that we should root for losses. But this team will not consider tanking. Not for one minute. See the difference?
So what you want to say is that we should root for losses. But this team will not consider tanking. Not for one minute. See the difference?
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:29 am to TigerinATL
quote:
we can't afford to have going away from Holiday be a repeat of moving on from Robin Lopez.
well you simply have to not make stupid choices with who you sign to replace him.
We've been saying all year that we'd all like Jrue as the 3rd guy, but when we said that, we assumed the guy that would be the 2nd guy, would be a SG or SF, not a C. Jrue just isnt' a great lead guard, and when I say lead guard, I mean the main scorer for your PG/SG/SF position.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 9:30 am to Crewz
quote:
that we should root for losses
i don't care what we root for bc that doesn't control or dictate outcomes. The singularly most beneficial thing that can come from these last 22 games are the chance of landing a top 3 pick.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:36 am to TigerinATL
quote:
They need someone that can run a P&R without dribbling the ball off of their feet
Right. That's not hard to find in 2017. The issue is defense, shooting, and ability to play off ball.
quote:
A SG that can create some like Fournier, or a PG that can shift Holiday to SG like Mills.
Either archetype works for me. But a ball dominant guy is not interesting to me. I would like to see them going more 4 out/1 in or 5 out letting Davis/Cousins facilitate and open up lanes to attack for guards. Keep the ball and players moving.
That's not easy to do on the fly.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:06 pm to Crewz
I'm honestly happy with either, I feel like I'm in a sweet spot that many fans won't enjoy.
If they win they get closer to playoffs, and I'm cool with that. If they gel slower than we thought, lose a bunch and end up getting a top 3 pick as a result, that would make me very happy.
So it's actually a win/win scenario, which we've haven't had for a long time, if ever. As long as they've shown progess, like they were in AD's second season, I'm happy with that. The only caveat is if they completely implode, which I think won't happen this season
If they win they get closer to playoffs, and I'm cool with that. If they gel slower than we thought, lose a bunch and end up getting a top 3 pick as a result, that would make me very happy.
So it's actually a win/win scenario, which we've haven't had for a long time, if ever. As long as they've shown progess, like they were in AD's second season, I'm happy with that. The only caveat is if they completely implode, which I think won't happen this season
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