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Message
re: Omer Asik
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:32 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:32 am to TigerinATL
yeah but they can't just go from 63 million to 100 million in one season. It's going to have to be a transition.
besides that, there's 12 teams over 70 million right now, 4 over 80.
besides that, there's 12 teams over 70 million right now, 4 over 80.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:33 am to corndeaux
quote:
Fantastic
ORating 109
DRating 97
Gordon has solid Net Ratings with every core guy (no lower than +4 with Davis and topping out at +11 with Asik) except Anderson (-3.5). Last year's Finishing 5 is breaking even this year. 120 and 120.
Gordon only has 370 minutes. But the numbers indicate the team misses him in a big way.
The original starting 5:
ORating 110
DRating 98
The current starting 5
ORating 101
Drating 111
Obviously a small sample, but Gordon was helping the team despite a career low FG%. It's not all about points.
Gordon's defense was really, really good. He seems to really get the rotations right. There were numerous times where he pinched down on the post, forced a pass and was in his guys pocket as soon as the big passed out of the double. He was definitely starting to live up to his old reputation as a top flight defender before he went down.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:33 am to Galactic Inquisitor
I always get those confused. I'm working on it though
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:35 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I always get those confused. I'm working on it though
Get it together, man!
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:39 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
yeah but they can't just go from 63 million to 100 million in one season
They can and are legally obligated to under the CBA. That's what happens when ESPN and Turner back up the dump truck full of cash.
quote:
It's going to have to be a transition.
Not if the owners keep monkeying around. Their smoothing proposal is to give extra money next year to the union to distribute rather than adding it to the cap. The union sees this as an attempt to artificially reduce wages by not making it available to the cap and aren't interested. So we may not get any smoothing and then once the money starts coming in the next year the CBA says it goes to the cap.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 8:43 am
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:44 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
higher cap isnt' supposed to start until after next year i thought, 2017 season
Right. So next year at around $66M, then a jump to maybe $80, perhaps even $90M. .
Demps almost has to give Asik a new contract after either making the playoffs with him or shipping out another 1st for him. I agree with ATL on the money. It will take a while for it to sink in that $12M is the new $8M.
If it's a new braintrust, it's a bit trickier I think. A back injury for a big is scary and he's already 28. Also, re-signing Asik, Anderson, and Davis will cost something like $50M/year. So what do they envision for Davis? You get a guy like Karl and I think he's tempted to roll with Davis at the 5 a good bit. So does it make as much sense to put big money into a guy like Asik? Or do they pull a SA and find a cheap stretch 4 (hello, Matt Bonner) to replace Anderson, still allowing for small ball units, but protecting Davis from undue pounding?
That last part has been a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently- I'd like to see more cross matching with Davis/Asik. Like v Portland- and I know it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Have Asik stick to Aldridge, let Davis mess around with Freeland or Lopez. Or v LAC- Grififin can physically dominate Davis, not so much Asik. Jordan is bigger too, but if they want to use possessions to post Jordan up v Davis, that's a win for the Pels.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:45 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Gordon's defense was really, really good. He seems to really get the rotations right. There were numerous times where he pinched down on the post, forced a pass and was in his guys pocket as soon as the big passed out of the double. He was definitely starting to live up to his old reputation as a top flight defender before he went down.
Yep. And like ATL said, it allowed Evans to guard the worst perimeter player. With Babbitt, who has tried admirably, that's a big drop.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:57 am to corndeaux
I like what Asik does, but i'm just not a fan of paying a center a lot of money, unless he's a sure fire all star, and even then, i'd rather pay a SG or SF that money.
I've said it a million times on here, there's isn't a center in the league that wins championships outside of Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem.
This day in age, the center is a role player, and if he has no offense but is a great defender, why pay him as much as you'd pay a really good SG or SF, or PF, positions that are the reason championships are won.
A trio of Davis/Asik/anyone isn't winning anything. i don't want Asik making top 3 money on this team.
I've said it a million times on here, there's isn't a center in the league that wins championships outside of Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem.
This day in age, the center is a role player, and if he has no offense but is a great defender, why pay him as much as you'd pay a really good SG or SF, or PF, positions that are the reason championships are won.
A trio of Davis/Asik/anyone isn't winning anything. i don't want Asik making top 3 money on this team.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:14 am to TeddyPadillac
Rim protection is vital and it isn't cheap. You always have to pay for a good center.
Salary situations are different, but look at San Antonio- they pay Splitter $9M/year to play C during the regular season and then back up Duncan in the playoffs when everyone goes small. He offers much of what Asik does. They signed Rasho Nesterovic to 6/$45 in '03 to play during the regular season and then take a seat for Horry/Duncan in the playoffs.
That could be a case for searching for a cheaper option than Asik, but they just tried that and ended up with an atrocious C platoon.
He isn't a part of a big 3 and the money is irrelevant. He will get more because of timing. And again, Tiago Splitter was top 3 in $$ on a champion. It's about value- Asik at $12M looks like a good value.
Salary situations are different, but look at San Antonio- they pay Splitter $9M/year to play C during the regular season and then back up Duncan in the playoffs when everyone goes small. He offers much of what Asik does. They signed Rasho Nesterovic to 6/$45 in '03 to play during the regular season and then take a seat for Horry/Duncan in the playoffs.
That could be a case for searching for a cheaper option than Asik, but they just tried that and ended up with an atrocious C platoon.
quote:
Davis/Asik/anyone isn't winning anything. i don't want Asik making top 3 money on this team.
He isn't a part of a big 3 and the money is irrelevant. He will get more because of timing. And again, Tiago Splitter was top 3 in $$ on a champion. It's about value- Asik at $12M looks like a good value.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:19 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Not if the owners keep monkeying around. Their smoothing proposal is to give extra money next year to the union to distribute rather than adding it to the cap. The union sees this as an attempt to artificially reduce wages by not making it available to the cap and aren't interested. So we may not get any smoothing and then once the money starts coming in the next year the CBA says it goes to the cap.
Why do the owners want the smoothing? What benefit is it to them?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:25 am to corndeaux
Spillter has an offensive game. He's worth 9 million.
and the Spurs have 3 vastly underpaid players in Ginobili, Leanord and Green.
I like Asik, i just don't want to pay top money for a guy that is that bad on offense. He's a terrible free throw shooter and on top of that he seems to have a hard time finishing at the rim, which is retarded for a 7'2" guy.
Name a starting center as bad as him on offense? You could name 25 centers in the league that can play good enough defense that aren't as terrible on offense
and the Spurs have 3 vastly underpaid players in Ginobili, Leanord and Green.
I like Asik, i just don't want to pay top money for a guy that is that bad on offense. He's a terrible free throw shooter and on top of that he seems to have a hard time finishing at the rim, which is retarded for a 7'2" guy.
Name a starting center as bad as him on offense? You could name 25 centers in the league that can play good enough defense that aren't as terrible on offense
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:30 am to corndeaux
quote:
Why do the owners want the smoothing? What benefit is it to them?
Create dissension in the union? "The new union lady turned down how much money?"
I think the GMs probably want smoothing more than the owners. And based on history GMs are right to be afraid of what they will do with a big pile of found money.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:34 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I like Asik, i just don't want to pay top money for a guy that is that bad on offense.
$8 million is not top money, and in fact you already said you're "very happy" with $8 million. You either are not "very happy" with Asik making $8 million or are refusing to accept that Asik's next deal will be affected by the TV deal that starts in only 1 more year.
$12 million is the new $8 million
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:40 am to TigerinATL
teams are already well over the salary cap.
He can make 12 when the cap is over 85 million, but that might not be for another 2 years.
There's cheaper options out there that can do what he does.
He can make 12 when the cap is over 85 million, but that might not be for another 2 years.
There's cheaper options out there that can do what he does.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:53 am to TigerinATL
quote:
$12 million is the new $8 million
Ehhhhh. Maybe, but it is hard to see it that way right now.
I wouldn't want to pay Asik more than 8-10 range for 3 years, and I am an Asik defender.
He's very good at what he does, which has a lot of value, but has such a giant gaping hole in his game that he should not get more than 10 million per.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:54 am to TeddyPadillac
Like Steimsma, Ajinca, and Withey?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:56 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
There's cheaper options out there that can do what he does.
Name 1.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:57 am to Fun Bunch
And I'll say if it comes down to paying him 12 or losing him, then you pretty much have to pay him.
I'm just saying that 10 is what I think he SHOULD get.
I'm just saying that 10 is what I think he SHOULD get.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:08 am to Fun Bunch
I'd be pretty upset if they let him walk for 12mil. I'd be really pumped if they keep him for 10mil.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:12 am to TeddyPadillac
FA centers next year:
Gasol
Brook Lopez
Hibbert
Deandre Jordan
Al Jefferson
Vucevic
Robin Lopez
Enes Kanter
Tyson Chandler
Kendrick Perkins
Greg Monroe
Dalembert
Turiaf
Kosta Koufos
Gasol is staying in Memphis.
Chandler is never coming back here.
Jordan is staying in LA, or a big city team.
If you're going to pay 12+ million for a center, get a center that has somewhat of an offensive game. if not, don't overspend on a center, overspend on a SF or SG. We'll be at around 13-14 million under the cap next year, with only 5 guys on the roster.
Gasol
Brook Lopez
Hibbert
Deandre Jordan
Al Jefferson
Vucevic
Robin Lopez
Enes Kanter
Tyson Chandler
Kendrick Perkins
Greg Monroe
Dalembert
Turiaf
Kosta Koufos
Gasol is staying in Memphis.
Chandler is never coming back here.
Jordan is staying in LA, or a big city team.
If you're going to pay 12+ million for a center, get a center that has somewhat of an offensive game. if not, don't overspend on a center, overspend on a SF or SG. We'll be at around 13-14 million under the cap next year, with only 5 guys on the roster.
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