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Message
re: Omer Asik
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:08 am to TheSexecutioner
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:08 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Try to think of think of the last time you can remember Ryno grabbing a defensive rebound that would be in danger of falling into the hands of the offense if an average high school center were replacing him.
yep, also no rebounding from the small forward position except when they play big and have cunningham at the 3.
1
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:28 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
But most teams will probably get a lot better offensively with their center off the court.
Which was my original point. I was probably a little obtuse with it bc law guy stupefied me with the awesome power of Tiago Splitter's post game and Dwight Howard's jumper.
Asik is good enough. Would I like it if he could catch and finish like a Chandler (a simple yet devastating offensive player)? Of course. But he's good enough to win because his defense can make up for his offense.
quote:
I guess my point is people harping on our offense not being smooth is kind of silly
It's the YAY POINTS syndrome. Not every guy has to score to be effective. The offense is fine. I don't like it and I don't think it's built on much more than 2 extraordinary players, but it is producing.
I've said it for a while now, defense will get Monty fired.
quote:
We have a top 5 offense and bottom 5 defense. Yet there is more complaining about Asik than Anderson and, for some people. Reke. Seems like its pretty obvious who's shortcomings are hurting the team more.
Anderson has legit defensive problems. Those problems were exacerbated by playing exclusively with 3 guards until Cunningham arrived.
Here's where we disagree:
Anderson, to me, is a large reason they have a top 5 offense. His spacing, even when he's off, is dynamite. They don't have any one else that demands that attention 25 feet from the hoop. I also think the scheme is poor in trying to replicate some of that spacing when he sits. Like you say, offense generally drops when a C is on the court- I believe that is magnified more than necessary in NO because of how they play offense. It's below average with Asik. Not bad, but it could be better even with his deficiencies on offense.
To me, the biggest failing of the coaches and front office has been the inability to work out the Asik/Anderson pairing. On paper, it should be dynamite: premier rim protecting big paired with premier stretch 4. It just hasn't been good so far. Maybe it just won't work.
I'm not ready to call it though. I think some of that is both Asik and Anderson's health. Some of it is on Monty- there is a lot evidence piling up that says he can't coach defense. And some of it goes to Demps- until recently that pair played much of its minutes with Rivers, Jimmer, Salmons. No one looks good with that trio.
So, the question becomes if you do get rid of Anderson, how much does the offense drop and can the defense improve enough to come out ahead in the exchange?
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:36 am to corndeaux
quote:
So, the question becomes if you do get rid of Anderson, how much does the offense drop and can the defense improve enough to come out ahead in the exchange?
I don't think its worth trading Anderson unless you are able to unload Gordon with him and if that's the case it probably diminishes the return you get. that being said I think the pels are best served keeping Anderson on this team.
I know we have some guys who are just flat out bad on D but we have enough above average guys to even that out. I really think the defensive issues fall squarely on Monty's shoulders.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:01 am to whoknows1390
quote:
no rebounding from the small forward position
Aminu was real good at that
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:40 am to NorthshoreTiger76
quote:
Aminu was real good at that
as much as we hated Aminu, I'd take him off the bench over salmons.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:44 am to whoknows1390
Cunningham's rebounding numbers as a Pel are low for his career averages (5.4 per 36 vs. 7.1 career per 36). But his career per 36 are close enough to Aminu (8.4 per 36) that I'm quite happy to trade Aminu for Cunningham and his reliable jumper.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:05 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:10 am to whoknows1390
quote:
I'd take him off the bench over salmons.
this
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:12 am to LSUtoTulaneLaw
A good way to tell if people have a clue about basketball is to hear their opinion of Asik.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:14 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Cunningham's rebounding numbers as a Pel are low for his career averages (5.4 per 36 vs. 7.1 career per 36).
Some of this probably has to do with him spending a lot of his career as a small-ball PF. Totally okay with this trade off as long as he keeps canning that jumper.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:18 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:22 am to LSUhornet17
quote:
Some of this probably has to do with him spending a lot of his career as a small-ball PF. Totally okay with this trade off as long as he keeps canning that jumper.
Could be a bit of a Lopez effect too. The team grabs 81% of defensive rebounds when he's on the court compared to 72% when he's not. 55% of total rebounds when he's on compared to 49% when he's not. Whether he's getting them or not, those numbers are outstanding; also likely unsustainable.
It's only been 230 minutes so far. Still not enough sample to make any definitive judgements
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:25 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm quite happy to trade Aminu for Cunningham and his reliable jumper.
without a doubt man. I was looking at more from the salmons angle.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:26 am to TigerinATL
1/7 at the rim in the final 5 minutes
trade Asik he sucks.
trade Asik he sucks.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:32 am to whoknows1390
quote:
think the pels are best served keeping Anderson on this team.
I agree. Worth exploring what he could fetch, but too early to give up the big trio.
quote:
but we have enough above average guys to even that out. I really think the defensive issues fall squarely on Monty's shoulders.
Yep. Teams like Phoenix, Boston, and Philadelphia are significantly better on defense with worse talent. And they are young, perhaps even younger than, the Pels.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:45 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm quite happy to trade Aminu for Cunningham and his reliable jumper.
Cunningham is a lot better than I thought he was going to be
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:52 am to NorthshoreTiger76
quote:
Cunningham is a lot better than I thought he was going to be
Cunningham has been great, I think
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:52 am to NorthshoreTiger76
quote:
Cunningham is a lot better than I thought he was going to be
If we can get him to take one step back now...
Deep 2 Dante could become...
Downtown Dante
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:57 am to Hester Carries
He's clearly not comfortable from three. The one three he made the other night is his second make of his career.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 10:04 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
There is a tendency in basketball watchers to think both teams are just taking turns playing offense against practice squads. I guess because meaningful stats aren't accrued on defense. Or at least they aren't frequently credited to the correct person.
I think this is right but incomplete. I think the truth is one step beyod this.
Box score stats basically involve agency and the ball... Who did what to the ball? He did good touch, he did bad touch, blah blah blah, plus fouls... Touchers bad touching touchers.
There is nothing, as far as I can tell, that says these are what really ties to wins or talent. It is all affected by your teammates and opposing players. As you said, there is a supposition, and a false one, that the defense is always typical, which is to say bad.
Other stats are out there, but defense is hard to pin down because while taent matters, the actions of teammates matter much more (assists get a pass here die to shot volume, but the same idea applies).
In the end, much of defense is about a guy who would like to shoot here choosing to shoot from there. Ergo, you can never really see defense affect the ball nor can we clearly assign agency to a defender. It's more about knowing the best few "moves" (likely) and seeing how often that happens v blown assignment, all while accepting "the offender will win mostly."
Sticky stuff.
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